This is a great explanation of internal temperature, Andrew. Jeffrey and Jess did a similar test and got the same results. It is difficult for newer bakers to get away from internal temperature because it is such an easy test, but not as reliable as using your senses. Thanks for the great post!
I have been wondering about this for a long time. I would take the temperature of the loaf and then wonder why the loaf was so pale when taking it out. Now I know I can be sure the loaf is brown to my preference and not worry about over baking on the inside. Thank you for this post!
Hi Andrew, I love this post. Looking back at my earlier sourdough loaves pre-pandemic, my sickly pale loaves definitely were victim to me taking them out too early. Nowadays I usually go for timing/color and then if I have any misgivings I’ll do the internal temp (recently treated myself to an instant read thermometer and it’s been such a delight!). Question - for enriched or filled breads, would you say it’s a little more important to keep track of the internal temp though, since they’re prone to over browning (like cakes) due to the butter and sugar, and you could be tricked to them being done but they’re in fact raw in the middle? Asking for a “friend” who had some cinnamon bun woes where the tops were so nicely browned but bottom still raw 🤪🤦🏻♀️... started taking internal temps after the first embarrassment and tented with foil to let them keep baking through after the top was brown enough.
Is it okay to use internal temp as a way to judge on a deep enriched loaf like brioche? I often find my large loaves get super brown easily bc of all the milk and eggs, and I use the internal temp to sense check.
Hallelujah! I don’t know if it’s related to my elevation or wonky oven, but I always hit the right color before temperature and was worried I was still underbaking. Thank you for the newb reassurance!
Totally agree! My French instructors always insisted we go by sight/sound/feel; in fact, we weren’t even allowed thermometers (in baking) the 1st year.
Great post & helpful for the nervous aspiring boulanger(e). Gorgeous loaf, btw. My cousin just gave me some jars of kumquat marmalade made from homegrown fruit, so I’m thinking, a café au lait, a thick slice slathered with sweet butter & marmalade; later with goat cheese & her homegrown home-cured olives and then... well, possibilities are limitless! 😋
Totally agree. Appearance first and foremost. As Jeff Hamelman teaches, the interior of the loaf hits 195 degrees around 2/3 of the way through the bake.
Apr 18, 2023·edited Apr 18, 2023Liked by Andrew Janjigian
This is great stuff, very interesting. Thanks! Got me going down a rabbit hole over lunch reading about temperature and weight/moisture loss during baking, water activity, oven/bread surface temperature, crumb development, flavor development etc.
I think my takeaway is to bake it until it's done? :)
I really appreciate this Andrew. I’ve used an instant read thermometer and the last 2 times I made bread the temperature inside after the allotted time was at 212! Which seems high. Except that the thermometer didn’t come out dry. I decided that they must be going to keep cooking inside for awhile. The bread has been good but I do wonder about the temperature issue.
When baking daily, in quantity, it doesn’t take long to get a sense and smell for when the bake is done. However, the home baker doesn’t have as much opportunity. Even baking three loaves a week will take a while to get dialed in.
Your graph tells a good story. It’s done, but is it ready ?!
It seems to me that this is game of temp. We want the crumb to be moist with just the right amount of brown on the crust.
Too much bake might not be noticed on the first day but the shelf life will be shortened and if it’s too done there’s little room for toasting without drying out. There are two of us.
I make a 200 gram loaf at 70% hydration. The loaf is good for about 3 days both in quantity and quality. This allows me to bake twice a week or roughly 100 loaves a year. Commercial bakers might be doing this per week or even per day !
Thank you for this, I'm so glad I found it. I have been baking my loaves to 93 deg C but have been a little disappointed that they have been a bit pale, nice though they are. The next one I bake I will take your advice and follow my senses instead of the thermometer.
This is a great explanation of internal temperature, Andrew. Jeffrey and Jess did a similar test and got the same results. It is difficult for newer bakers to get away from internal temperature because it is such an easy test, but not as reliable as using your senses. Thanks for the great post!
Karen - It was a conversation with Jeffrey that inspired that original testing! He mentioned some Japanese experiment he’d heard about. Also: hi!
Hi! Hope all is well with you!
Yes! Crazy busy, but very good. Hope you are as well (good, not crazy busy)
I have been wondering about this for a long time. I would take the temperature of the loaf and then wonder why the loaf was so pale when taking it out. Now I know I can be sure the loaf is brown to my preference and not worry about over baking on the inside. Thank you for this post!
Hi Andrew, I love this post. Looking back at my earlier sourdough loaves pre-pandemic, my sickly pale loaves definitely were victim to me taking them out too early. Nowadays I usually go for timing/color and then if I have any misgivings I’ll do the internal temp (recently treated myself to an instant read thermometer and it’s been such a delight!). Question - for enriched or filled breads, would you say it’s a little more important to keep track of the internal temp though, since they’re prone to over browning (like cakes) due to the butter and sugar, and you could be tricked to them being done but they’re in fact raw in the middle? Asking for a “friend” who had some cinnamon bun woes where the tops were so nicely browned but bottom still raw 🤪🤦🏻♀️... started taking internal temps after the first embarrassment and tented with foil to let them keep baking through after the top was brown enough.
Just saw your footnote, never mind! Question answered!
Can you speak about internal
Temps for proofing ??
I already have! https://newsletter.wordloaf.org/p/class-time-desired-dough-temperature
Is it okay to use internal temp as a way to judge on a deep enriched loaf like brioche? I often find my large loaves get super brown easily bc of all the milk and eggs, and I use the internal temp to sense check.
Nicola! Yes!! See my footnote, which I will move to the text so that it is more prominent!
My hero <3 sorry, i'm always unnecessarily cruel to footnotes!
What is the beautiful bread you posted with this note?
just a happy sourdough loaf I made using this recipe: https://newsletter.wordloaf.org/p/loaf-classic-recipe
thank you!
Hallelujah! I don’t know if it’s related to my elevation or wonky oven, but I always hit the right color before temperature and was worried I was still underbaking. Thank you for the newb reassurance!
Totally agree! My French instructors always insisted we go by sight/sound/feel; in fact, we weren’t even allowed thermometers (in baking) the 1st year.
Great post & helpful for the nervous aspiring boulanger(e). Gorgeous loaf, btw. My cousin just gave me some jars of kumquat marmalade made from homegrown fruit, so I’m thinking, a café au lait, a thick slice slathered with sweet butter & marmalade; later with goat cheese & her homegrown home-cured olives and then... well, possibilities are limitless! 😋
Totally agree. Appearance first and foremost. As Jeff Hamelman teaches, the interior of the loaf hits 195 degrees around 2/3 of the way through the bake.
This is great stuff, very interesting. Thanks! Got me going down a rabbit hole over lunch reading about temperature and weight/moisture loss during baking, water activity, oven/bread surface temperature, crumb development, flavor development etc.
I think my takeaway is to bake it until it's done? :)
I really appreciate this Andrew. I’ve used an instant read thermometer and the last 2 times I made bread the temperature inside after the allotted time was at 212! Which seems high. Except that the thermometer didn’t come out dry. I decided that they must be going to keep cooking inside for awhile. The bread has been good but I do wonder about the temperature issue.
When baking daily, in quantity, it doesn’t take long to get a sense and smell for when the bake is done. However, the home baker doesn’t have as much opportunity. Even baking three loaves a week will take a while to get dialed in.
Your graph tells a good story. It’s done, but is it ready ?!
It seems to me that this is game of temp. We want the crumb to be moist with just the right amount of brown on the crust.
Too much bake might not be noticed on the first day but the shelf life will be shortened and if it’s too done there’s little room for toasting without drying out. There are two of us.
I make a 200 gram loaf at 70% hydration. The loaf is good for about 3 days both in quantity and quality. This allows me to bake twice a week or roughly 100 loaves a year. Commercial bakers might be doing this per week or even per day !
Practice, practice, is crucial.
Happy baking
Thank you for this, I'm so glad I found it. I have been baking my loaves to 93 deg C but have been a little disappointed that they have been a bit pale, nice though they are. The next one I bake I will take your advice and follow my senses instead of the thermometer.