100% RYE DOUGHS SCARE MOST BAKERS. I don't know why, as they're probably the easiest for the amateur baker to get right. Mixing is essentially no-knead, the process stopping just after a homogenous mixture is achieved. Shaping is a cinch. So is baking. (Just bake it really, really hot for 20 minutes and then in a vented, medium oven for 40 to 60 minutes more. Home ovens do not likely ever get hot enough, either!) The main key to success is nailing the fermentation, particularly at the dough starter stage. Again, 100% rye flour makes it very easy due to its higher-than-average mineral content. This is aided by using a warmer-than-average fermentation temperature (32°C) for both the starter and final dough. Bulk fermentation should be kept as brief as possible, about 15 minutes. Because rye does not entrap escaping gasses as well as wheat doughs, a baker gets the lightest results by allowing the dough to spend the majority of life in its final shape. Shaping can be done with either a wet or dry method. For the wet, keep a bowl of warm water by your side and dip your hands or dough scraper into it as needed, shaping the dough pieces into whichever form you want. We use dry at the bakery, which essentially consists of using rye bench flour. The best shapes for 100% rye are rounds or logs that are left seam-side-up and lightly dusted for a decorative effect. This creates a “crackled” look as the dough expands during fermentation. Just be sure to not use too much steam directly atop the loaves when baking to maintain the floured black-white contrast. Alternatively, this dough can be cut into two equal pieces and left as-is, creating unique, irregular shapes that resemble gnarly rocks. Bake in a hot, hot oven. Here, using a pizza stone (or, better yet, fire bricks) works much better than the bread-in-a-pot method. This dough is one of the few directly-processed breads we make, everything done at room temperature. We use a very high proportion of stiff rye starter, creating a ballsy sweet-sour loaf that's among everybody's favourite here at the bakery. Personally, I do not like the taste of rye doughs that are retarded. It dulls the brightness I seek. We also ignore advice to rest the doughs after baking before cutting into. In fact, there's probably not a better bread for slathering with salted, cultured butter when still warm from the oven! Stiff rye starters create a spicier flavour profile with more roasted notes in the crust, as well as a big hit of acetic acid. For a mellower, fruitier take, a liquid rye starter can be used. Just be sure to lower the water amount in the final dough accordingly. I also find liquid rye starters get better flavour when retarded compared to stiff starters. When determining the ripeness of a stiff rye starter, visual cues do not work as well, since whole rye flour hydrated at 65% will not “move” much. Use smell and touch instead. The starter should crumble apart easily in the fingers; be mouth-puckeringly tart; and carry a beautiful fragrance of spiced cedar. We use a roller-milled rye flour, as we prefer the larger bran pieces, but any coarsely-milled rye flour will do if seeking a heartier loaf. If a softer- textured crumb with a more subtle flavour is desired, then finely stone-milled rye flours do the trick nicely. The consensus amongst bakers at Apiece is that coarser, rustic rye loaves taste better, but that's just our opinion.
OVERALL FORMULA
DOUGH STARTER BUILD
Flour, Whole Rye
PREFERMENTED FLOUR: HYDRATION OF STARTER: DOUGH YIELD:
BAKER'S %
100.00%
35.29%
65.00% 2 x 800g loaves
HOME
293.70 g
TOTAL FLOUR 100.00% 832.25 g
Flour, Whole Rye 100.00% 832.25 g
Water 90.00% 749.02 g
Sea Salt 1.75% 14.56 g
Flour, Malted Barley, Freshly-Milled 0.50% 4.16 g
TOTAL YIELD 192.25% 1,600.00 g
Page 1
Water 65.00% 190.91 g
Stiff Starter, Previously-Fermented 5.00% 14.69 g
TOTAL 170.00% 499.29 g
FINAL DOUGH
TOTAL FLOUR 100.00% 538.55 g
Flour, Whole Rye 100.00% 538.55 g
Starter, From Above 89.98% 484.61 g
Water 103.63% 558.12 g
Sea Salt 2.70% 14.56 g
Flour, Malted Barley, Freshly-Milled 0.77% 4.16 g
TOTAL 297.09% 1,600.00 g
1. DOUGH STARTER BUILD.
Mix the dough starter 12 to 14 hours before the final dough, and leave to ferment in an air- tight, food-grade container. Desired dough temperature is 32°C.
2. MIXING.
Add all ingredients to a large mixing bowl and combine by squeezing the ingredients into each other with both hands. Proceed until every particle of flour is hydrated and a smooth, homogenous dough is achieved. Use a plastic scraper to scrape down the sides of the bowl if needed. Keep a bowl of warm water to dip your hands into from time-to-time, as wetted hands make mixing rye doughs easier. If using a stand-mixer, add all the ingredients to the bowl and mix using a dough paddle on the lowest speed for 5 minutes or until a homogenous mixture is achieved. Finish on medium speed for 1 minute 30 seconds. When mixed correctly, the dough's colour should turn a lighter shade of grey and have a soft, mousse-like texture. Desired dough temperature is 32°C.
3. BULK FERMENTATION.
15 to 20 minutes.
4. DIVIDING AND SHAPING.
Divide the dough into two equal portions of 800g apiece and form into desired shapes. Proof the dough seam-side-up (the top), lightly dusted with rye flour.
5. FINAL FERMENTATION.
2 to 3 hours, temperature depending.
6. BAKING.
With ample steam, bake at 265° to 285°C for 20 minutes, before lowering the temperature to 220°C for an additional 40 to 60 minutes.
where is this from? (I know it is Ian’s, but I haven’t seen it before). It pretty much mirrors my own approach, minus the scald i’ve been using recently.
Scalding is great, and in Austria they do a lot of that I learned at a workshop in Vienna. As well as taking old dough, toasting and soaking it for depth of flavor..I love Austrian breads!
Rye breads, my ultimate bread. This post just derailed my whole day, reminiscing to my days baking rye loaves in Germany. The flavor and aroma of rye sour-based hypnotize me. And you're right, you almost need to forget what you know about wheat-bread baking when it comes to ryes. Especially when it comes to handling these sticky, sometimes flowing, doughs.
When baking in Germany, we were taught not to flatten Vollkornbrot dough into the pan. Simply shape it into a ball with wet hands, roll it in Roggenshrot or melon seeds, and plop it into the pan. The loaf will naturally expand to fit the container.
Hi Marie, I'd discourage anything cold proofing with rye. It's an entirely different animal. I bake in a professional capacity, and rye is part of our daily lineup. Preferments are a must for successful rye baking, but once you've mixed the final dough, and because of its very high enzymatic activity, things cannot wait. Happy baking.
Have you tried Lithiuanian black rye bread with solod (fermented sprouted rye)? It's one of my favorites. The Stanley Ginsberg recipe has 9% bread flour but you can make it all rye if you want. The hard part is buying the solod off eBay or Etsy.
oh, great. Those prices are much better than eBay. I have a maltster friend who made some once for an Eastern European bakery, but they found it to be a lot of work.
I wonder if malted rye berries from the homebrewing store would produce similar result. I usually buy vienna (malted barley) for milling in my Mockmill and then using the flour as dusting flour. Tastes so much better than rice flour. :) or could you sprout rye berries and then stick them in the dehydrator to make the malted rye flour? ;) just brainstorming here....
A bit off topic as this is a cookie, not bread, recipe, but a great rye cookie: https://www.delicious.com.au/recipes/white-chocolate-pretzel-cookie-recipe/3jne7upr. I recently took a Milk Street class with the recipe developer, Benjamina Ebuehi, a 2016 finalist in the Great British Baking Show. Was inspired to make this right after, and it was delicious. She mentioned to use light rye, not dark rye, flour.
Wow what an awesome read. I think many people would appreciate the 4k word intros so keep doing your thing! I'm rye-curious for sure but have yet to make the proper leap into 100% ryes. I'm interested in converting my starter into the ww/rye formulation you use, it sounds like that's step one to getting into rye-land. What do you do with the discard? Same as with the basic starter or do you have any gorgeous recipes you recommend? The answer may exist elsewhere on your site, I'm newly joining your cohort, so thank you in advance for pointing me in the right direction!
Thanks, Ashley! The texture of the rye-wheat starter (or a whole-rye one) is very different than a white-flour one, so yes, you do need to alter how you use it. It still works great in my discard granola, so that is what I use it for mostly. It will also work in anything that gets structure from starch rather than gluten: cakes, cookies, crackers, pancakes, quick breads, etc. You'll likely have to tweak hydration to get the stiffer starter to work like a liquid one. My Carr's copycat recipe is perfect for it, and I have a discard Boston brown bread in the works too.
I'll take a look at your granola recipe, this all sounds like great experimental fun! Thanks so much for the reply and for sharing your passion with all of us!
Thanks for the post. I’m new in the rye world, felt in love with rugbord in Denmark.
What’s the best way to store rye bread if not consumed daily? Freezer or wrapped in fridge? I live in a hot climate & worried of the seed inclusion in the bread.
I usually keep mine in a plastic bag, loosely. If I don't think I'll eat it before it grows mold, I'll wrap tightly and move it to the fridge. Ryes don't retrograde like wheat loaves, so they can be refrigerated without staling.
I love this chapter, and I'll be delighted to buy the book when released. I bake in a professional capacity in France, in a rye-producing region (Auvergne). I'd venture to say that single most important thing with rye baking is getting as good and uncorrected a flour as you can afford, and not changing your flour supplier until you've mastered the basics. Buy T-135 rye to start with, leave the full T-170 experience for later (American non-classified rye flours are too confusing, sorry for this) and do NOT buy any rye flour that is supermarket-related.
Start baking in metal pans, leaving bannetons for the time being, and sprinkle your dough with a small amount of (fresh) yeast. It helps, and I don't know anyone who bakes for a, living around here who skips yeast.
While it's true you kind of need a different baker's brain for rye, once you're a capable wheat baker it will just take a few bakes to get the basics right and enter a totally different dimension.
Mix hot,always bake very hot (260C for the initial 25 minutes or so, then switch your oven off if baking on a thick stone) and don't hesitate to take your loaf out of the pan for the final 20-30 minutes of baking to dry it thoroughly, we always do.
I've loved the chapter and related to 100% of the things said. Looking forward to purchasing the book as said. Thanks again.
Thanks for your message. The steamers in the deck oven are automatic so it's difficult to say but let's say it's 5 seconds steam. At home I'd proceed with the regular steaming techniques used for wheat breads, as you very adequately say in your writeup. Let me insist again in taking the bread out of the pan for the final 25 minutes or so.
In a deck oven, the usual technique for 400 gr breads is to bake the initial 25 minutes at 250-260C, pans on heavy oven sheets, then switch the oven off, take the breads out of the pans and back on the sheets, and bake for another 25 minutes with what we French call "chaleur tombante" or falling heat. I guess this mimics the wood fired ovens of old.
We flour the top (wheat flour) and score the breads with wet scissors in an X pattern (pan diagonals) before everything goes in the oven.
Many thanks for your insights. I’ve been trying to bake a sprouted and seeded rye and all I’ve been getting is a gooey result and or a roofed loaf. While you thoughts can be applied to any recipe, I look forward to reading your book. John D
This is so great. Wheat is my default and I see steps from my wheat based baking creeping into my rye method such as chucking a tinned loaf into the fridge overnight for baking the next day. Wrong wrong! Thank you for all the science! P
Great article, I'm going to upgrade to paid right now.
I'm still a total rye novice, but I've been baking a lot of danish rugbrod and was initially surprised to see that some recipes, including stuff from Thomas Teffri Chambelland but also pro danish bakers, call for either a long proof (12h+) or an extended cold retarding of 12-48 hours. As you point out, I always thought rye 1) ferments really quickly and 2) prefers warm temperatures (85f+).
Assuming that's the case, does anyone know why these longer proof times work for danish rye, but not other rye breads? From what I've seen, the danes use a ton of rye berries (up to 1:1 with flour) and less preferment, maybe that's why it can tolerate the longer fermentation?
Also - re: hydration, I found those pointers really helpful. Is it fair to say you just go by "flow" vs a strict hydration percentage? That's been a challenge to wrap my head around, especially with all the different grinds of rye flour you see mentioned in these recipes
I don't think there is something special about Danish rye that makes it work when retarded, I think that it might be the practice to do it that way sometimes in Denmark, and that TTC picked up on that. I think it is *possible* to do it that way, but there are risks to it that make it not necessarily a good idea. Ryes generally require a high amount of prefermented flour to avoid starch attack; starting with a low amount and retarding are a great way to cause it.
As for flow & hydration, I do think it is a useful thing to learn to discern, especially given the variability in rye flour absorption rate. With my scalded rye formulas, the dough doesn't really *move* much after mixing, but it has a loose viscosity that "feels" flowy, if that makes sense. It really does take some direct experience to understand, and likely some overdoing it in order to know what the limits are. More water is generally better than too little, until you go too far.
Just did @apieceofvreads formula for 100% magic!
which one?
APIECE 100% RYE
100% RYE DOUGHS SCARE MOST BAKERS. I don't know why, as they're probably the easiest for the amateur baker to get right. Mixing is essentially no-knead, the process stopping just after a homogenous mixture is achieved. Shaping is a cinch. So is baking. (Just bake it really, really hot for 20 minutes and then in a vented, medium oven for 40 to 60 minutes more. Home ovens do not likely ever get hot enough, either!) The main key to success is nailing the fermentation, particularly at the dough starter stage. Again, 100% rye flour makes it very easy due to its higher-than-average mineral content. This is aided by using a warmer-than-average fermentation temperature (32°C) for both the starter and final dough. Bulk fermentation should be kept as brief as possible, about 15 minutes. Because rye does not entrap escaping gasses as well as wheat doughs, a baker gets the lightest results by allowing the dough to spend the majority of life in its final shape. Shaping can be done with either a wet or dry method. For the wet, keep a bowl of warm water by your side and dip your hands or dough scraper into it as needed, shaping the dough pieces into whichever form you want. We use dry at the bakery, which essentially consists of using rye bench flour. The best shapes for 100% rye are rounds or logs that are left seam-side-up and lightly dusted for a decorative effect. This creates a “crackled” look as the dough expands during fermentation. Just be sure to not use too much steam directly atop the loaves when baking to maintain the floured black-white contrast. Alternatively, this dough can be cut into two equal pieces and left as-is, creating unique, irregular shapes that resemble gnarly rocks. Bake in a hot, hot oven. Here, using a pizza stone (or, better yet, fire bricks) works much better than the bread-in-a-pot method. This dough is one of the few directly-processed breads we make, everything done at room temperature. We use a very high proportion of stiff rye starter, creating a ballsy sweet-sour loaf that's among everybody's favourite here at the bakery. Personally, I do not like the taste of rye doughs that are retarded. It dulls the brightness I seek. We also ignore advice to rest the doughs after baking before cutting into. In fact, there's probably not a better bread for slathering with salted, cultured butter when still warm from the oven! Stiff rye starters create a spicier flavour profile with more roasted notes in the crust, as well as a big hit of acetic acid. For a mellower, fruitier take, a liquid rye starter can be used. Just be sure to lower the water amount in the final dough accordingly. I also find liquid rye starters get better flavour when retarded compared to stiff starters. When determining the ripeness of a stiff rye starter, visual cues do not work as well, since whole rye flour hydrated at 65% will not “move” much. Use smell and touch instead. The starter should crumble apart easily in the fingers; be mouth-puckeringly tart; and carry a beautiful fragrance of spiced cedar. We use a roller-milled rye flour, as we prefer the larger bran pieces, but any coarsely-milled rye flour will do if seeking a heartier loaf. If a softer- textured crumb with a more subtle flavour is desired, then finely stone-milled rye flours do the trick nicely. The consensus amongst bakers at Apiece is that coarser, rustic rye loaves taste better, but that's just our opinion.
OVERALL FORMULA
DOUGH STARTER BUILD
Flour, Whole Rye
PREFERMENTED FLOUR: HYDRATION OF STARTER: DOUGH YIELD:
BAKER'S %
100.00%
35.29%
65.00% 2 x 800g loaves
HOME
293.70 g
TOTAL FLOUR 100.00% 832.25 g
Flour, Whole Rye 100.00% 832.25 g
Water 90.00% 749.02 g
Sea Salt 1.75% 14.56 g
Flour, Malted Barley, Freshly-Milled 0.50% 4.16 g
TOTAL YIELD 192.25% 1,600.00 g
Page 1
Water 65.00% 190.91 g
Stiff Starter, Previously-Fermented 5.00% 14.69 g
TOTAL 170.00% 499.29 g
FINAL DOUGH
TOTAL FLOUR 100.00% 538.55 g
Flour, Whole Rye 100.00% 538.55 g
Starter, From Above 89.98% 484.61 g
Water 103.63% 558.12 g
Sea Salt 2.70% 14.56 g
Flour, Malted Barley, Freshly-Milled 0.77% 4.16 g
TOTAL 297.09% 1,600.00 g
1. DOUGH STARTER BUILD.
Mix the dough starter 12 to 14 hours before the final dough, and leave to ferment in an air- tight, food-grade container. Desired dough temperature is 32°C.
2. MIXING.
Add all ingredients to a large mixing bowl and combine by squeezing the ingredients into each other with both hands. Proceed until every particle of flour is hydrated and a smooth, homogenous dough is achieved. Use a plastic scraper to scrape down the sides of the bowl if needed. Keep a bowl of warm water to dip your hands into from time-to-time, as wetted hands make mixing rye doughs easier. If using a stand-mixer, add all the ingredients to the bowl and mix using a dough paddle on the lowest speed for 5 minutes or until a homogenous mixture is achieved. Finish on medium speed for 1 minute 30 seconds. When mixed correctly, the dough's colour should turn a lighter shade of grey and have a soft, mousse-like texture. Desired dough temperature is 32°C.
3. BULK FERMENTATION.
15 to 20 minutes.
4. DIVIDING AND SHAPING.
Divide the dough into two equal portions of 800g apiece and form into desired shapes. Proof the dough seam-side-up (the top), lightly dusted with rye flour.
5. FINAL FERMENTATION.
2 to 3 hours, temperature depending.
6. BAKING.
With ample steam, bake at 265° to 285°C for 20 minutes, before lowering the temperature to 220°C for an additional 40 to 60 minutes.
Page 2
where is this from? (I know it is Ian’s, but I haven’t seen it before). It pretty much mirrors my own approach, minus the scald i’ve been using recently.
I've been copying and pasting on Ian's instagram for years...he even asked me if I had his cornetti formula and if I could send a copy! https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/fcjlebrn95ucv7rj9glj2/AH31z52u1T7z5xvxzqAEF1w?rlkey=j7wbb0yhncwlqt4ak97ghmf2v&e=1&dl=0
same, lol
Scalding is great, and in Austria they do a lot of that I learned at a workshop in Vienna. As well as taking old dough, toasting and soaking it for depth of flavor..I love Austrian breads!
Rye breads, my ultimate bread. This post just derailed my whole day, reminiscing to my days baking rye loaves in Germany. The flavor and aroma of rye sour-based hypnotize me. And you're right, you almost need to forget what you know about wheat-bread baking when it comes to ryes. Especially when it comes to handling these sticky, sometimes flowing, doughs.
Sorry about your day, Martin!
When baking in Germany, we were taught not to flatten Vollkornbrot dough into the pan. Simply shape it into a ball with wet hands, roll it in Roggenshrot or melon seeds, and plop it into the pan. The loaf will naturally expand to fit the container.
Interesting!
Thanks for the interesting info on ryes! Is it possible and/recommended to proof rye overnight in the refrigerator? What might be a good ratio, if so?
I haven't mastered rye yet, but really love an excellent rye bread.
Hi Marie, I'd discourage anything cold proofing with rye. It's an entirely different animal. I bake in a professional capacity, and rye is part of our daily lineup. Preferments are a must for successful rye baking, but once you've mixed the final dough, and because of its very high enzymatic activity, things cannot wait. Happy baking.
What AV said. Ryes are not retarded, typically. There's no benefit, and the risk of dough degradation and overproofing is high for multiple reasons.
Have you tried Lithiuanian black rye bread with solod (fermented sprouted rye)? It's one of my favorites. The Stanley Ginsberg recipe has 9% bread flour but you can make it all rye if you want. The hard part is buying the solod off eBay or Etsy.
I haven't, but I have used solod, and love it! Why doesn't Breadtopia stock it?!
Good question. I think the main issue has been supply difficulties / import sanctions. I just did some searching and there is a company in Brooklyn selling it now: https://gastronomusa.com/products/copy-of-rye-malt-extract-s-pudov-650-ml?_pos=5&_sid=e5edb5d9b&_ss=r
oh, great. Those prices are much better than eBay. I have a maltster friend who made some once for an Eastern European bakery, but they found it to be a lot of work.
There's a how-to in this blog https://www.beetsandbones.com/russian-red-rye-malt-solod/ but like you noted, it is a lot of work. So many stages and ranges of temp control.
(I haven't tried it)
I considered it myself, but am not sure I have the patience!
I wonder if malted rye berries from the homebrewing store would produce similar result. I usually buy vienna (malted barley) for milling in my Mockmill and then using the flour as dusting flour. Tastes so much better than rice flour. :) or could you sprout rye berries and then stick them in the dehydrator to make the malted rye flour? ;) just brainstorming here....
Solod has a very different flavor profile than "regular" malted rye berries, but malted rye berries are nice too!
Thanks for this post!
Write the book on rye!!! 🤪 Love this so much. Thank you for the deep dive!
maybe book two! (if there is one)
A bit off topic as this is a cookie, not bread, recipe, but a great rye cookie: https://www.delicious.com.au/recipes/white-chocolate-pretzel-cookie-recipe/3jne7upr. I recently took a Milk Street class with the recipe developer, Benjamina Ebuehi, a 2016 finalist in the Great British Baking Show. Was inspired to make this right after, and it was delicious. She mentioned to use light rye, not dark rye, flour.
Have baked rye bread for almost 20 years. Would love to be one of your bread tester.
As German have been raised with this kin of bread.
You can see part of my work in Instagram @enharinado
Wow what an awesome read. I think many people would appreciate the 4k word intros so keep doing your thing! I'm rye-curious for sure but have yet to make the proper leap into 100% ryes. I'm interested in converting my starter into the ww/rye formulation you use, it sounds like that's step one to getting into rye-land. What do you do with the discard? Same as with the basic starter or do you have any gorgeous recipes you recommend? The answer may exist elsewhere on your site, I'm newly joining your cohort, so thank you in advance for pointing me in the right direction!
Thanks, Ashley! The texture of the rye-wheat starter (or a whole-rye one) is very different than a white-flour one, so yes, you do need to alter how you use it. It still works great in my discard granola, so that is what I use it for mostly. It will also work in anything that gets structure from starch rather than gluten: cakes, cookies, crackers, pancakes, quick breads, etc. You'll likely have to tweak hydration to get the stiffer starter to work like a liquid one. My Carr's copycat recipe is perfect for it, and I have a discard Boston brown bread in the works too.
I'll take a look at your granola recipe, this all sounds like great experimental fun! Thanks so much for the reply and for sharing your passion with all of us!
I'm going to be baking more rye sourdough this Fall and I plan to refer to this post constantly: thank you for your thoroughness!
Thanks for the post. I’m new in the rye world, felt in love with rugbord in Denmark.
What’s the best way to store rye bread if not consumed daily? Freezer or wrapped in fridge? I live in a hot climate & worried of the seed inclusion in the bread.
I usually keep mine in a plastic bag, loosely. If I don't think I'll eat it before it grows mold, I'll wrap tightly and move it to the fridge. Ryes don't retrograde like wheat loaves, so they can be refrigerated without staling.
Thanks👍
I love this chapter, and I'll be delighted to buy the book when released. I bake in a professional capacity in France, in a rye-producing region (Auvergne). I'd venture to say that single most important thing with rye baking is getting as good and uncorrected a flour as you can afford, and not changing your flour supplier until you've mastered the basics. Buy T-135 rye to start with, leave the full T-170 experience for later (American non-classified rye flours are too confusing, sorry for this) and do NOT buy any rye flour that is supermarket-related.
Start baking in metal pans, leaving bannetons for the time being, and sprinkle your dough with a small amount of (fresh) yeast. It helps, and I don't know anyone who bakes for a, living around here who skips yeast.
While it's true you kind of need a different baker's brain for rye, once you're a capable wheat baker it will just take a few bakes to get the basics right and enter a totally different dimension.
Mix hot,always bake very hot (260C for the initial 25 minutes or so, then switch your oven off if baking on a thick stone) and don't hesitate to take your loaf out of the pan for the final 20-30 minutes of baking to dry it thoroughly, we always do.
I've loved the chapter and related to 100% of the things said. Looking forward to purchasing the book as said. Thanks again.
Thank you, very glad to hear that! Do you use steam, and for how long?
Thanks for your message. The steamers in the deck oven are automatic so it's difficult to say but let's say it's 5 seconds steam. At home I'd proceed with the regular steaming techniques used for wheat breads, as you very adequately say in your writeup. Let me insist again in taking the bread out of the pan for the final 25 minutes or so.
In a deck oven, the usual technique for 400 gr breads is to bake the initial 25 minutes at 250-260C, pans on heavy oven sheets, then switch the oven off, take the breads out of the pans and back on the sheets, and bake for another 25 minutes with what we French call "chaleur tombante" or falling heat. I guess this mimics the wood fired ovens of old.
We flour the top (wheat flour) and score the breads with wet scissors in an X pattern (pan diagonals) before everything goes in the oven.
Many thanks for your insights. I’ve been trying to bake a sprouted and seeded rye and all I’ve been getting is a gooey result and or a roofed loaf. While you thoughts can be applied to any recipe, I look forward to reading your book. John D
Mother Grains by Roxana Jullapat has a sprouted rye recipe that has worked well for me
This is so great. Wheat is my default and I see steps from my wheat based baking creeping into my rye method such as chucking a tinned loaf into the fridge overnight for baking the next day. Wrong wrong! Thank you for all the science! P
Great article, I'm going to upgrade to paid right now.
I'm still a total rye novice, but I've been baking a lot of danish rugbrod and was initially surprised to see that some recipes, including stuff from Thomas Teffri Chambelland but also pro danish bakers, call for either a long proof (12h+) or an extended cold retarding of 12-48 hours. As you point out, I always thought rye 1) ferments really quickly and 2) prefers warm temperatures (85f+).
Assuming that's the case, does anyone know why these longer proof times work for danish rye, but not other rye breads? From what I've seen, the danes use a ton of rye berries (up to 1:1 with flour) and less preferment, maybe that's why it can tolerate the longer fermentation?
Also - re: hydration, I found those pointers really helpful. Is it fair to say you just go by "flow" vs a strict hydration percentage? That's been a challenge to wrap my head around, especially with all the different grinds of rye flour you see mentioned in these recipes
I don't think there is something special about Danish rye that makes it work when retarded, I think that it might be the practice to do it that way sometimes in Denmark, and that TTC picked up on that. I think it is *possible* to do it that way, but there are risks to it that make it not necessarily a good idea. Ryes generally require a high amount of prefermented flour to avoid starch attack; starting with a low amount and retarding are a great way to cause it.
As for flow & hydration, I do think it is a useful thing to learn to discern, especially given the variability in rye flour absorption rate. With my scalded rye formulas, the dough doesn't really *move* much after mixing, but it has a loose viscosity that "feels" flowy, if that makes sense. It really does take some direct experience to understand, and likely some overdoing it in order to know what the limits are. More water is generally better than too little, until you go too far.