Love this bread, Andrew; made it last week. When wordloaf had it's second rise, I was reminded how much I enjoyed it. I made it on a really wet day (probably not the smartest) and so shaping the sticky dough was going to be a beast. I just threw it all in a 13" pullman pan, and can confirm that it worked great.
Touché to Wordloaf's "second rise". So glad you like the recipe! Let me know if you find the new one better/worse/different. I reduced the hydration slightly and switched to bread flour, so that the dough isn't quite so sticky, especially during mixing and first proof.
Hi Andrew, is there another name for the nigella seeds? We call it sev kentig, and what I get at the armo store is called black caraway seeds. Is this the same as nigella seeds? I’m having a hard time getting an accurate answer through google, with comparisons between cumin, caraway, black cumin, black caraway, and nigella. What I buy (black caraway) looks to be the same as nigella based on the pics, and black caraway is what my mom used when she used to make tel baneer, but now I’m wondering if we’ve been using the wrong thing all these years.
Tanya - yes, sev gundig is the Armenian term, and it's sometimes labeled black caraway, black onion, and black cumin, though it is not related to any of those, other than by its similarity in flavors.
Great presentation. I am having a hard time figuring out how to purchase Osmotolerant yeast. When I look for it online, yeast does come up (no pun intended), but does not have the work Osmotolerant in the description Do you have any brands or links to the yeast? Thanks Andrew.
Do you ever use tangzhong in sourdough breads? I haven't tried a recipe using it yet, and I'm looking forward to one! I don't bake sweet breads much, and appreciate your teaching about why it's so useful in sweet breads.
Dessa - Yes, I do, but I don't like my sweet breads to taste sour, and it's tricky to avoid that. Stay tuned for recipes that explain how to keep sweet sourdoughs sweet, they are on the list!
Is tangzhong only used for sweet breads, then? I was wondering about sourdough breads that are supposed to taste sour, and whether tangzhong is beneficial for them.
Sourdough breads are usually crusty/chewy in texture, and tangzhong is anathema to that. But a TZ-like variant that works beautifully with sourdough is porridge breads, something I will be covering in great detail soon, since it's another of my favorite techniques.
hello! Thank you for this recipe. I am really confused about how to make the actual loaf in the pan. Do I just connect the little rolls together? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Erin - The recipe has two sections for shaping, one for braided loaves, one for rolls! You need to start at the first "step 8" if you want to make loaves.
Hi! Can’t wait to try this. When you say to do two folds in the standing mixer with the towel over the dough, do you leave the dough hook on with the towel over the dough? Just a little confused about this part. Thank you!
Gabby. I meant drape the towel over the entire mixer. But actually I think it's better to do the folds by hand these days, so ignore that. Hope you like!
Thank you for this recipe, Andrew. I was just wondering: your recipe indicates 12-18 hours slow fermentation in the fridge, but could this be sped up by leaving the dough out for 6 hours or overnight? My grandmother's method calls for letting it stand so I wondered if that can be implemented here as well. I understand handling it cold is helpful with the stickiness, but can I simply chill it before braiding? Also, my family's preference is a super sweet loaf. Is there a max sugar I could add to your ratios? I can't tell you how much I appreciate this recipe. I find myself straddling two baking philosophies and cultures, one old and one modern. Having a resource like your recipe is such a blessing. Thank you so much for helping keep family traditions alive. I appreciate it.
Alina - You could certainly do it entirely at room temperature, but the dough will be _much_ stickier. Chilling right before shaping might help, but you'd want to make sure it is fully cold, which might take a couple of hours. As for the sugar, I'd say this one is on the high side already, but you can certainly go up. That would be a good reason to also use osmotolerant yeast; otherwise you might need to increase the instant yeast significantly. When I was testing my serious eats recipe (which calls for instant, since I figured people wouldn't seek out osmotolerant), I found I needed way more instant than I thought I would.
Thank you so much for responding, Andrew. I'll definitely chill it through. In going up on the sugar do I need to change anything else on your ratios or can the sugar be increased independently? And I always use the osmotolerant yeast! I found it in my choreg research a couple of years ago and swear by it. And I love Serious Eats! I'm excited to find more information with your post there. Best wishes.
Hey Andrew, I made this recipe last week for Easter and had some comments/questions. First, the salt content in your recipe is much higher than what I’m used to. Initially I thought that was the reason the other flavors (sugar and mahlab) were muted although the ratios are similar to my recipe. So I took my family recipe and tinkered with it and converted it to the tangzhong method by increasing the liquid content and cooking a portion of the flour with water at a 1:5 ratio. So using my recipe, I found that my choreg flavors were muted as well... but they weren’t salty, so the salt content in your recipe isn’t what was causing the muted flavors. I’m now wondering if using the tangzhong method is muting the flavors because of all the extra liquid that’s used, but the other ingredients aren’t increased. Any thoughts? Any ideas how to fix it? I feel like increasing the sugar and mahlab wouldn’t really fix the problem, but maybe they would... in my recipe, the sugar is also at 26%, so I can’t imagine going much higher than that.
Lovely recipe . . . easy to make and great to refrigerate overnight and bake up fresh before eating. We found it a bit too sweet to eat with dinner . . . but, wonderful for breakfast.
Thanks, Neil, glad you liked! If you eat choreg outside of dessert or breakfast, the trick is to pair it with salty things like string cheese, feta, and olives.
Love this bread, Andrew; made it last week. When wordloaf had it's second rise, I was reminded how much I enjoyed it. I made it on a really wet day (probably not the smartest) and so shaping the sticky dough was going to be a beast. I just threw it all in a 13" pullman pan, and can confirm that it worked great.
Touché to Wordloaf's "second rise". So glad you like the recipe! Let me know if you find the new one better/worse/different. I reduced the hydration slightly and switched to bread flour, so that the dough isn't quite so sticky, especially during mixing and first proof.
Hi Andrew, is there another name for the nigella seeds? We call it sev kentig, and what I get at the armo store is called black caraway seeds. Is this the same as nigella seeds? I’m having a hard time getting an accurate answer through google, with comparisons between cumin, caraway, black cumin, black caraway, and nigella. What I buy (black caraway) looks to be the same as nigella based on the pics, and black caraway is what my mom used when she used to make tel baneer, but now I’m wondering if we’ve been using the wrong thing all these years.
Tanya - yes, sev gundig is the Armenian term, and it's sometimes labeled black caraway, black onion, and black cumin, though it is not related to any of those, other than by its similarity in flavors.
Gorgeous loaves! Will you post a recipe for the brioche you referenced above?
I definitely will!
Great presentation. I am having a hard time figuring out how to purchase Osmotolerant yeast. When I look for it online, yeast does come up (no pun intended), but does not have the work Osmotolerant in the description Do you have any brands or links to the yeast? Thanks Andrew.
thanks, Greg! Sometimes it is hard to tell from the label, but just look for SAF "Gold", that's the stuff.
KAF sells it.
Do you ever use tangzhong in sourdough breads? I haven't tried a recipe using it yet, and I'm looking forward to one! I don't bake sweet breads much, and appreciate your teaching about why it's so useful in sweet breads.
Dessa - Yes, I do, but I don't like my sweet breads to taste sour, and it's tricky to avoid that. Stay tuned for recipes that explain how to keep sweet sourdoughs sweet, they are on the list!
Is tangzhong only used for sweet breads, then? I was wondering about sourdough breads that are supposed to taste sour, and whether tangzhong is beneficial for them.
Sourdough breads are usually crusty/chewy in texture, and tangzhong is anathema to that. But a TZ-like variant that works beautifully with sourdough is porridge breads, something I will be covering in great detail soon, since it's another of my favorite techniques.
hello! Thank you for this recipe. I am really confused about how to make the actual loaf in the pan. Do I just connect the little rolls together? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Erin - The recipe has two sections for shaping, one for braided loaves, one for rolls! You need to start at the first "step 8" if you want to make loaves.
Andrew - Did you happen to post the brioche recipe. Can't seem to find it. Thanks
Hi! Can’t wait to try this. When you say to do two folds in the standing mixer with the towel over the dough, do you leave the dough hook on with the towel over the dough? Just a little confused about this part. Thank you!
Gabby. I meant drape the towel over the entire mixer. But actually I think it's better to do the folds by hand these days, so ignore that. Hope you like!
Thank you for this recipe, Andrew. I was just wondering: your recipe indicates 12-18 hours slow fermentation in the fridge, but could this be sped up by leaving the dough out for 6 hours or overnight? My grandmother's method calls for letting it stand so I wondered if that can be implemented here as well. I understand handling it cold is helpful with the stickiness, but can I simply chill it before braiding? Also, my family's preference is a super sweet loaf. Is there a max sugar I could add to your ratios? I can't tell you how much I appreciate this recipe. I find myself straddling two baking philosophies and cultures, one old and one modern. Having a resource like your recipe is such a blessing. Thank you so much for helping keep family traditions alive. I appreciate it.
Alina - You could certainly do it entirely at room temperature, but the dough will be _much_ stickier. Chilling right before shaping might help, but you'd want to make sure it is fully cold, which might take a couple of hours. As for the sugar, I'd say this one is on the high side already, but you can certainly go up. That would be a good reason to also use osmotolerant yeast; otherwise you might need to increase the instant yeast significantly. When I was testing my serious eats recipe (which calls for instant, since I figured people wouldn't seek out osmotolerant), I found I needed way more instant than I thought I would.
Thank you so much for responding, Andrew. I'll definitely chill it through. In going up on the sugar do I need to change anything else on your ratios or can the sugar be increased independently? And I always use the osmotolerant yeast! I found it in my choreg research a couple of years ago and swear by it. And I love Serious Eats! I'm excited to find more information with your post there. Best wishes.
Hey Andrew, I made this recipe last week for Easter and had some comments/questions. First, the salt content in your recipe is much higher than what I’m used to. Initially I thought that was the reason the other flavors (sugar and mahlab) were muted although the ratios are similar to my recipe. So I took my family recipe and tinkered with it and converted it to the tangzhong method by increasing the liquid content and cooking a portion of the flour with water at a 1:5 ratio. So using my recipe, I found that my choreg flavors were muted as well... but they weren’t salty, so the salt content in your recipe isn’t what was causing the muted flavors. I’m now wondering if using the tangzhong method is muting the flavors because of all the extra liquid that’s used, but the other ingredients aren’t increased. Any thoughts? Any ideas how to fix it? I feel like increasing the sugar and mahlab wouldn’t really fix the problem, but maybe they would... in my recipe, the sugar is also at 26%, so I can’t imagine going much higher than that.
Lovely recipe . . . easy to make and great to refrigerate overnight and bake up fresh before eating. We found it a bit too sweet to eat with dinner . . . but, wonderful for breakfast.
Thanks, Neil, glad you liked! If you eat choreg outside of dessert or breakfast, the trick is to pair it with salty things like string cheese, feta, and olives.