Thank you for the rec! It looks like there are just the two sizes right? Do you know if there's anything larger if you're trying to bake multiple loaves at once?
ideally it would be wide and flat. The issue is making sure the ice turns to steam before it melts and cools off the vessel. The reason the challenger works so well is that the water spreads out
Yes, sometimes for me on a high hydration loaf or something that really needs shape (perhaps a high-rye, say) I will flip over my breadtopia ceramic baker and after taking the dough out of the banneton place it in there, so the dough just climbs up the wall as it bakes and I dont have to worry about splaying out
i realize this is partially a function of my talent and skill at preparing that particular loaf's integrity and gluten development... but it helps in those cases :-) interesting to note that this one cannot be done (although with the stickiness, i imagine parchment paper would help)
B & T has made some great products & if I didn’t already have a Challenger pan, their Baking Shell sounds like the way to go. I highly recommend their bread proofer & Soudough Home too. Love how B&T & Maurizio Leo have collaborated on these products. Know I still have my aluminum turkey roasting pan Andrew! Happy baking!
I went through EXACTLY this in the last few months. Love(d?) my Challenger pan, but simply have not bothered to drag it out since I got the batard shell and steel. It's every bit as effective, and the ease of use still blows my mind, every time. Feels like cheating.
I use the bread mat, unless the loaf is too big for it (like a miche), in which case I use parchment or a thin silicone mat (not a thick silpat, but the thin stuff you can buy here and cut down: https://store.simply-bread.co/products/simply-bread-baking-mat)
Do you think you could use the Bread Steel for pizzas and flatbreads? I'm guessing the answer in "no," given that you advise against using a pizza steel under the Shell, but it seems worth asking.
If no, it's a pity there isn't a universal steel that would work for both applications. That's less an issue with product design and more an issue with thermodynamics, alas.
actually, you definitely can use it for flatbreads and I do often. But I've yet to do a side-by-side to see whether a thick, massive steel is better than a thin, transmissive one. It's on my list...
Have you ever tried using a baking stone/steel and then covering the loaf with an aluminum mixing bowl or steel pot (with plastic handles removed) or hotel pan? Is the B&T shell better? Is it $79 better? Thanks.
Allen - the shell is *very* thin, so it heats up faster than most ersatz cloches will, and it has a handle, which is very nice. As for whether it is $79 better, I cannot say. I use bowls or pans occasionally when my loaves are larger than the shell can handle (2k miches or baguettes), but I much prefer the shell
Definitely better. A better shape, for one. And Aluminum is far far superior to steel when it comes to thermal conductivity and heat transfer. Whether it is $79 better is entirely up to you.
Super helpful, thanks -- I had heard these came out but was eager to hear some firsthand impressions! My tattered disposable roasting pan is definitely not providing the best seal and yearns to be replaced.
Thank you for the review! I am recently looking into the B&T, it's not available in my country yet, but I am waiting. I have one question tho, you mentioned the B&T steel does not require preheating, so basically it goes into the oven with the dough? like i put the dough on the cold baking steel, cover with the shell, and then they all go into the oven together?
better? Not necessarily. But since I consider the Forneau and Challenger to provide comparable results, I think the Shell makes a great replacement for the Forneau too!
Note: My typical batard is about 800g dough and that is perfect for the batard shell. If I keep the same flour weight and add substantial inclusions, say about another 100-120g, the increase in volume gets the sides of the batard WAY too close to the shell. Had some burning issues. No big deal, I'll scale those loaves down in the future, just something to note.
Yet another note (sorry): You REALLY do not need ice cubes here. What I do is spritz the inside of the shell with a mister, the kind people use to put on makeup, very fine. Gets a layer of water droplets on there and that is more than you need.
I have the challenger and the B&T shell. For me, the Challenger still wins out. I love how it holds steam from an ice cube but even more, I like that after removing the lid I can flip it under the base. The bottoms of my bread never over bake. Crust comes out perfect with a nice sheen.
I adore my Challenger. But my second favorite is my….Crofton bread baker. Yes the round cast iron pan and lid Aldi sells.
Thank you for the rec! It looks like there are just the two sizes right? Do you know if there's anything larger if you're trying to bake multiple loaves at once?
see my footnote! (no, not yet)
Ah, thanks! Turkey roasting pan is not a bad idea though.
Regarding the ice cube trick, why not just put a small SS cup with the ice cube in it under the lid when you close it up?
I’ve tried it—you need the mass and conductivity of the Challenger to create steam fast enough. If I could find a little cast-iron cup…
I have a cast iron tea cup (2.5" x 2") that would be perfect. Go to a local Japanese store or search the web. There are tons available.
ideally it would be wide and flat. The issue is making sure the ice turns to steam before it melts and cools off the vessel. The reason the challenger works so well is that the water spreads out
How do you think it would fare if it were upside down, eg a high hydration dough placed into the 'shell' on its back and the steel placed on top?
that wouldn’t work: They are not flat on top, and I’m 100% certain the dough would stick to them.
Why? Do you mean a dough that is too loose to hold itself up? You can definitely set a loaf pan under the shell
Yes, sometimes for me on a high hydration loaf or something that really needs shape (perhaps a high-rye, say) I will flip over my breadtopia ceramic baker and after taking the dough out of the banneton place it in there, so the dough just climbs up the wall as it bakes and I dont have to worry about splaying out
i realize this is partially a function of my talent and skill at preparing that particular loaf's integrity and gluten development... but it helps in those cases :-) interesting to note that this one cannot be done (although with the stickiness, i imagine parchment paper would help)
B & T has made some great products & if I didn’t already have a Challenger pan, their Baking Shell sounds like the way to go. I highly recommend their bread proofer & Soudough Home too. Love how B&T & Maurizio Leo have collaborated on these products. Know I still have my aluminum turkey roasting pan Andrew! Happy baking!
I went through EXACTLY this in the last few months. Love(d?) my Challenger pan, but simply have not bothered to drag it out since I got the batard shell and steel. It's every bit as effective, and the ease of use still blows my mind, every time. Feels like cheating.
Andrew, do you still use your bread mat under the shell, or maybe parchment paper? Asking Santa for this.
I use the bread mat, unless the loaf is too big for it (like a miche), in which case I use parchment or a thin silicone mat (not a thick silpat, but the thin stuff you can buy here and cut down: https://store.simply-bread.co/products/simply-bread-baking-mat)
Do you think you could use the Bread Steel for pizzas and flatbreads? I'm guessing the answer in "no," given that you advise against using a pizza steel under the Shell, but it seems worth asking.
If no, it's a pity there isn't a universal steel that would work for both applications. That's less an issue with product design and more an issue with thermodynamics, alas.
actually, you definitely can use it for flatbreads and I do often. But I've yet to do a side-by-side to see whether a thick, massive steel is better than a thin, transmissive one. It's on my list...
Have you ever tried using a baking stone/steel and then covering the loaf with an aluminum mixing bowl or steel pot (with plastic handles removed) or hotel pan? Is the B&T shell better? Is it $79 better? Thanks.
Allen - the shell is *very* thin, so it heats up faster than most ersatz cloches will, and it has a handle, which is very nice. As for whether it is $79 better, I cannot say. I use bowls or pans occasionally when my loaves are larger than the shell can handle (2k miches or baguettes), but I much prefer the shell
Definitely better. A better shape, for one. And Aluminum is far far superior to steel when it comes to thermal conductivity and heat transfer. Whether it is $79 better is entirely up to you.
Super helpful, thanks -- I had heard these came out but was eager to hear some firsthand impressions! My tattered disposable roasting pan is definitely not providing the best seal and yearns to be replaced.
Thank you for the review! I am recently looking into the B&T, it's not available in my country yet, but I am waiting. I have one question tho, you mentioned the B&T steel does not require preheating, so basically it goes into the oven with the dough? like i put the dough on the cold baking steel, cover with the shell, and then they all go into the oven together?
the steel goes in the oven while preheating, the shell goes on with the bread
I have the fourneau bread oven but the lightness of this one is appealing ! Do you think it produces better results than the fourneau?
better? Not necessarily. But since I consider the Forneau and Challenger to provide comparable results, I think the Shell makes a great replacement for the Forneau too!
Thank you!!
A very cross functional replacement for the B&T Steel could be the Lloyd Sicilian Pizza Pan (14" x 14")
It could function as a square focaccia pan and a sourdough pizza pan
https://lloydpans.com/catalog/product/view/id/1830/s/grandma-style-pizza-pans/category/288/
that's not a bad idea, though the gauge and material of the Lloyd pans is not going to be as conducive as a steel
Note: My typical batard is about 800g dough and that is perfect for the batard shell. If I keep the same flour weight and add substantial inclusions, say about another 100-120g, the increase in volume gets the sides of the batard WAY too close to the shell. Had some burning issues. No big deal, I'll scale those loaves down in the future, just something to note.
I have had that problem with it too, where large loaves touch the side and flatten out.
Yet another note (sorry): You REALLY do not need ice cubes here. What I do is spritz the inside of the shell with a mister, the kind people use to put on makeup, very fine. Gets a layer of water droplets on there and that is more than you need.
I have the challenger and the B&T shell. For me, the Challenger still wins out. I love how it holds steam from an ice cube but even more, I like that after removing the lid I can flip it under the base. The bottoms of my bread never over bake. Crust comes out perfect with a nice sheen.