I have to agree with you 100%! I've been in this adventure for 3 -- almost 4 years now and I'm still learning and tweaking and getting better in the process. I used to mix my dough with the KitchenAid, then fold & stretch, coil & laminate. But in the last month (ever since watching your class!) I went back to mixing by hand. My shoulder doesn't like it much, but my bread comes out better when I have this first close encounter with my dough. I learn by feel; and of course by watching YouTube, reading books and posts on Social Media and communications with other bakers like you. I'm not in this to turn out a business; I want to learn something knew and find a good use for our spent grain. My husband brews beer and I hate to throw out perfectly good grain. Now I use it in my bread--100g at a time. I still add mockmilled wholegrain -- maybe up to 75-100g, and that makes for some tasty loaves. Even if some may be duds--listen to what they tell us, write down what you learn so you can change it next time, and then enjoy the "dud-wich", which always tastes better than "Wonderbread". It's important to not get sucked into the Instagram-worthy picture thingy. If the bread looks awesome-- by all means post the sucker. But remember this is really a relationship between you and your dough: a journey of getting to know each other with the reward of a flavor experience to remember. That's my 5 cents worth. Granny, over and out. :)
How do you factor in the spent grain? Do you factor it into the flour and water or just flour? My husband is getting ready to brew again and I never thought to use the spent grain.
I freeze 100g bags each time. I did a test of dehydrating 100g and got 40g dried grain. So when I add it wet, I count 40g "flour" and 60g water. I usually make a beer-smoothie. 😎 I mix the spent grain with water/more beer aks fluid in dough in the blender and make a smoothie. That goes in the bowl with the flour for autolyze. Works great. Good luck!!
I've just been making the 25% wheat loaf over and over again. I've changed what the whole wheat is sometimes but after a a year into this, I know I still have so much to learn from this one type of bread before I move on.
Also agree, cento per cento. On all points. I think that repeating the same suite of doughs the past year has taught me the most (even if proofing remains the most elusive concept) because of the practice-makes-perfect adage. And it's all been through visual or touch cues. I also find it easier to trace the source of so-called mistakes or wins by considering what might have been changes to the repetition. Huge confidence booster, to boot. And yes, please, to an index!
Yes I agree that the biggest hurdle for me was interpreting dough at different stages especially bulk fermentation. Definitely I found that 100% proofing left me with a hard to handle dough and sunken loaf at the end. Now I aim for 60%. Also I was very nervous about everything, including the starter, shaping. Now after repeating the no knead recipe about 20 times I feel more able to respond to variables and more confident handling dough. Just in time. Now that I finally received Flourside bannetons I can feel good about sharing bone fide loaves with friends and family. I am mercifully stopping subjecting them to my test loaves.
Thanks Andrew for identifying and explaining this point! I’ve noticed that by straying from my standard recipe and also, entering a new season and new temperatures, I’m losing control/understanding of my bread. Time to (gladly) get back on the treadmill of one recipe!
Does the Lifestyle class cover the pre-shaping/shaping/banneton sequence? I've baked the 75% hydration loaf twice, and it went well enough that I tried the 80% today, but the haphazard approach to shaping I used on the 75% seemed inadequate to the 80%. It's in the banneton, but not sure how its going to come out- less shaped and placed in the basket than flung in.
Robert - it does. I shape 3 loaves in the class, one round and two long ones. And I do talk a lot about shaping and tension and how it affects the final results.
1) Can you recommend a good oval proofing basket? I like to make batard-shaped sourdough loaves, and would like to use a proofing basket to help maintain the shape w high-hydration doughs.
2) I grew up outside Boston in an Armenian neighborhood and have early (and joyful) memories of the choreg our neighbors made and shared. Thanks so much for your recipe. It’s on the list for this week.
Kate - Hope you like the choereg! As for a basket, I always recommend these ones from Flourside: https://flourside.com/products/wood-pulp-proofing-baskets?variant=31755857821805 The large oval that I like is sold out, but I think they have the round ones. They are available elsewhere, but couldn't find a good source just now.
Thank you! I made choereg once before, when I found your recipe on SeriousEats. It was very good and I need more practice. Making dough tonight to bake tomorrow. Thanks for the basket recommendation too.
I have to agree with you 100%! I've been in this adventure for 3 -- almost 4 years now and I'm still learning and tweaking and getting better in the process. I used to mix my dough with the KitchenAid, then fold & stretch, coil & laminate. But in the last month (ever since watching your class!) I went back to mixing by hand. My shoulder doesn't like it much, but my bread comes out better when I have this first close encounter with my dough. I learn by feel; and of course by watching YouTube, reading books and posts on Social Media and communications with other bakers like you. I'm not in this to turn out a business; I want to learn something knew and find a good use for our spent grain. My husband brews beer and I hate to throw out perfectly good grain. Now I use it in my bread--100g at a time. I still add mockmilled wholegrain -- maybe up to 75-100g, and that makes for some tasty loaves. Even if some may be duds--listen to what they tell us, write down what you learn so you can change it next time, and then enjoy the "dud-wich", which always tastes better than "Wonderbread". It's important to not get sucked into the Instagram-worthy picture thingy. If the bread looks awesome-- by all means post the sucker. But remember this is really a relationship between you and your dough: a journey of getting to know each other with the reward of a flavor experience to remember. That's my 5 cents worth. Granny, over and out. :)
How do you factor in the spent grain? Do you factor it into the flour and water or just flour? My husband is getting ready to brew again and I never thought to use the spent grain.
I freeze 100g bags each time. I did a test of dehydrating 100g and got 40g dried grain. So when I add it wet, I count 40g "flour" and 60g water. I usually make a beer-smoothie. 😎 I mix the spent grain with water/more beer aks fluid in dough in the blender and make a smoothie. That goes in the bowl with the flour for autolyze. Works great. Good luck!!
I've just been making the 25% wheat loaf over and over again. I've changed what the whole wheat is sometimes but after a a year into this, I know I still have so much to learn from this one type of bread before I move on.
Also agree, cento per cento. On all points. I think that repeating the same suite of doughs the past year has taught me the most (even if proofing remains the most elusive concept) because of the practice-makes-perfect adage. And it's all been through visual or touch cues. I also find it easier to trace the source of so-called mistakes or wins by considering what might have been changes to the repetition. Huge confidence booster, to boot. And yes, please, to an index!
Yes I agree that the biggest hurdle for me was interpreting dough at different stages especially bulk fermentation. Definitely I found that 100% proofing left me with a hard to handle dough and sunken loaf at the end. Now I aim for 60%. Also I was very nervous about everything, including the starter, shaping. Now after repeating the no knead recipe about 20 times I feel more able to respond to variables and more confident handling dough. Just in time. Now that I finally received Flourside bannetons I can feel good about sharing bone fide loaves with friends and family. I am mercifully stopping subjecting them to my test loaves.
Thanks Andrew for identifying and explaining this point! I’ve noticed that by straying from my standard recipe and also, entering a new season and new temperatures, I’m losing control/understanding of my bread. Time to (gladly) get back on the treadmill of one recipe!
Season shifts are a pain, Amy! (although I prefer warmer to colder temps, generally).
Index? Yes please!!!
Does the Lifestyle class cover the pre-shaping/shaping/banneton sequence? I've baked the 75% hydration loaf twice, and it went well enough that I tried the 80% today, but the haphazard approach to shaping I used on the 75% seemed inadequate to the 80%. It's in the banneton, but not sure how its going to come out- less shaped and placed in the basket than flung in.
Robert - it does. I shape 3 loaves in the class, one round and two long ones. And I do talk a lot about shaping and tension and how it affects the final results.
Hi Andrew,
One question and one comment:
1) Can you recommend a good oval proofing basket? I like to make batard-shaped sourdough loaves, and would like to use a proofing basket to help maintain the shape w high-hydration doughs.
2) I grew up outside Boston in an Armenian neighborhood and have early (and joyful) memories of the choreg our neighbors made and shared. Thanks so much for your recipe. It’s on the list for this week.
Kate - Hope you like the choereg! As for a basket, I always recommend these ones from Flourside: https://flourside.com/products/wood-pulp-proofing-baskets?variant=31755857821805 The large oval that I like is sold out, but I think they have the round ones. They are available elsewhere, but couldn't find a good source just now.
Thank you! I made choereg once before, when I found your recipe on SeriousEats. It was very good and I need more practice. Making dough tonight to bake tomorrow. Thanks for the basket recommendation too.