Dec 14, 2023·edited Dec 14, 2023Liked by Andrew Janjigian
I’m happy to see you speak up about this! Luke O’Neil left Substack in April 2022 for this reason too. I believe it was Chris Best that wrote a response post when he left called “Leaving Hell World,” but now I can’t find it? (Luke’s newsletter was called “Welcome to Hell World”). The discussion on that article really stayed with me, or at least the good-faith angle regarding the conundrum about how big you want the moderation machine to get on any given platform. But your open letter nailed it: when you’re platforming open Nazis and giving them a livelihood spreading their Nazism, it’s unquestionably too “hands off!”
I am no nazi sympathizer nor was I aware of Nazi publications on Substack but lately it seems everyone is onboard the "lets ban free speech" everywhere train... There is a case to be made that hate speech, as vile as it may be, is better out in the open where we can see who writes it and who reads it..
Gotta disagree with you there, hbaeuerle, with the evidence coming from the Nazi’s themselves expressing how grateful they are to have a legitimate platform to reach a broader audience and support themselves financially in their work spreading Nazi ideology. Plus, we’ve known collectively about plenty of self-described Nazis for years now, and the influence they had didn’t go down with the moral indignation of the public, in fact it seemed to go up! And it kept going up until they began getting de-platformed. Since the content of their speech is explicitly about the eradication of entire peoples, the stakes are way bigger than just signaling a vague discomfort with their speech; it is about the catastrophic material consequences of helping Nazis gain audiences and money. Substack isn’t a government entity, they’re a platform; so they get to choose what sort of platform they wish to be and how they want to run things. I hope they make this adjustment!
If substack loses money they will ban right wing publications as they are indeed a private entity. Or authors can leave.. i just cancelled my twitter account as soon as alex jones was reinstated..
Many authors (myself among them) *like* Substack, both the platform and the community, and would like the people who run it to keep it from turning into a "Nazi bar" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nazi_bar). We are asking them to stop promoting and profiting from overt Nazis, not ban speech we might happen to dislike. Yes, we authors and users could leave for other platforms, but that shouldn't be the only option we have.
What nazis are they profiting off of / promoting? Does it amount to more than say, 100/yr (in profit, for substack, total), 10,000/yr? What exact censorship mechanisms / frameworks do you propose that can be cleanly and evenly implemented in a non-partisan manner?
Let me guess you've gotten this all from Platformer / The Atlantic / places in which that is their primary source? But also can you tell me the consequences of National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie? And what it would have looked like if Skokie had won the case?
This is not only about what you as a single person want to read or not. Substack is paying those Nazis money and gets money because of them. That is where I personally draw the line.
Thank you for your stand. I have been weighing cancellation of my subscriptions zinc reading the Atlantic article. I’m hoping there is some other way for subscribers refuse to support Substack's distasteful policies. I shall continue to support you and other Substack authors outside of the platform, by buying books and other products.
I guess it was naive of me to think that profit at-any-cost wasn’t the end-goal of Substack. Thank you for shining a light on the “underbelly,” illuminating this disgusting practice.
I followed you into Substack, and I’ll certainly follow you out!
Happily follow you wherever you go, should you choose to leave. ✊
Same!
ditto, andrew.
Ditto!
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well said, Andrew. Thank you.
Well done, Andrew, thank you.
Thank you, Andrew!
I’m happy to see you speak up about this! Luke O’Neil left Substack in April 2022 for this reason too. I believe it was Chris Best that wrote a response post when he left called “Leaving Hell World,” but now I can’t find it? (Luke’s newsletter was called “Welcome to Hell World”). The discussion on that article really stayed with me, or at least the good-faith angle regarding the conundrum about how big you want the moderation machine to get on any given platform. But your open letter nailed it: when you’re platforming open Nazis and giving them a livelihood spreading their Nazism, it’s unquestionably too “hands off!”
I am no nazi sympathizer nor was I aware of Nazi publications on Substack but lately it seems everyone is onboard the "lets ban free speech" everywhere train... There is a case to be made that hate speech, as vile as it may be, is better out in the open where we can see who writes it and who reads it..
Gotta disagree with you there, hbaeuerle, with the evidence coming from the Nazi’s themselves expressing how grateful they are to have a legitimate platform to reach a broader audience and support themselves financially in their work spreading Nazi ideology. Plus, we’ve known collectively about plenty of self-described Nazis for years now, and the influence they had didn’t go down with the moral indignation of the public, in fact it seemed to go up! And it kept going up until they began getting de-platformed. Since the content of their speech is explicitly about the eradication of entire peoples, the stakes are way bigger than just signaling a vague discomfort with their speech; it is about the catastrophic material consequences of helping Nazis gain audiences and money. Substack isn’t a government entity, they’re a platform; so they get to choose what sort of platform they wish to be and how they want to run things. I hope they make this adjustment!
If substack loses money they will ban right wing publications as they are indeed a private entity. Or authors can leave.. i just cancelled my twitter account as soon as alex jones was reinstated..
Many authors (myself among them) *like* Substack, both the platform and the community, and would like the people who run it to keep it from turning into a "Nazi bar" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nazi_bar). We are asking them to stop promoting and profiting from overt Nazis, not ban speech we might happen to dislike. Yes, we authors and users could leave for other platforms, but that shouldn't be the only option we have.
What nazis are they profiting off of / promoting? Does it amount to more than say, 100/yr (in profit, for substack, total), 10,000/yr? What exact censorship mechanisms / frameworks do you propose that can be cleanly and evenly implemented in a non-partisan manner?
Let me guess you've gotten this all from Platformer / The Atlantic / places in which that is their primary source? But also can you tell me the consequences of National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie? And what it would have looked like if Skokie had won the case?
Cheers to a fellow fan of the Harvey Silverglate model of free speech -
Yes, the correct number is Zero. Thank you.
Hear, hear!!!!
Wow! Thank you so much for highlighting this and taking a stand. So much respect ♡
No thanks. I’ll decide what I do or don’t read on my own.
This is not only about what you as a single person want to read or not. Substack is paying those Nazis money and gets money because of them. That is where I personally draw the line.
Not only that, they are actively promoting some of the worst of them, even inviting them onto their podcasts!
Un-fricking-believable! 😱😳😢 Ok, time to really get into Pinterest, I don’t see myself here anymore.
Jamie I believe “threads “ is now available to you. It’s a much more civilized option than the cesspool “x”.
thank you for this. "I will follow you, wherever you may go."
Thank you for your stand. I have been weighing cancellation of my subscriptions zinc reading the Atlantic article. I’m hoping there is some other way for subscribers refuse to support Substack's distasteful policies. I shall continue to support you and other Substack authors outside of the platform, by buying books and other products.
I guess it was naive of me to think that profit at-any-cost wasn’t the end-goal of Substack. Thank you for shining a light on the “underbelly,” illuminating this disgusting practice.
I followed you into Substack, and I’ll certainly follow you out!