Thanks for sharing! Curious if you think using KA AP vs bread flour (having different protein content) affects the bread's rise? Or potentially using a bit of both?
Meagan - I think KA AP is strong enough (I've said it before, but it is my go-to "bread" flour), and it's the one I used for the loaves pictured here. Other bread flours differ in protein content, so they'll give slightly different results.
Hi Andrew, thank you for the lovely recipe. I use my countertop oven's Proof setting for bulk fermentation, but it's set, unchangeably, to 80 degrees F. Is that an OK temp, and if so, how much should I shorten the fermentation time?
Steven - I'd either use the 5% amount I list here, or even dial it back a little bit (2.5%?), and stick to the 12h proof time. You might consider starting in the morning, so you can keep an eye on it all day to be sure it doesn't move too fast.
Thanks for the updated recipe for "The Loaf." In Step 7 after forming for the final proof, the recipe directs to "Cover and let sit..." Should the formed dough be covered tightly with plastic wrap? Or loosely with a towel? I use plastic shower caps to tightly cover the bowl during the bulk proof, but am wondering about the final proof stage. Thanks.
Douglas - I'll add more details, but I usually just cover the top my banneton with the same shower cap, but not enclose it entirely, since I think it helps keep moisture from building up between the loaf and the banneton.
Using a plastic shower cap as a “semi-cover” during the final proof makes good sense. During the dry winter, during final proof, I think my loaves have been getting too dry on top. Thanks for the clear reply. Much appreciated!
Hi Andrew, Happy New Year. I used to bake No-Knead bread in my Dutch oven before I purchased a Challenger Pan back in the Spring. I assume that I can bake this in the Challenger Pan and would omit the parchment paper step? (I usually just invert the banneton onto the hot Challenger pan.) I never got around to trying this recipe the first time you published it as I have been using my tried and true KA Extra Tangy Sourdough recipe. But I want to give this one a try as my new standard!
Edith - I bake in a challenger too, but I tend to use parchment, both because I'd rather not invert directly onto the hot pan for fear of burning myself or not having it land exactly where I want it to. But you can skip it if you want!
Thanks for sharing! I've been making more laborious sourdough for months but this was my first try with a no-knead recipe and it turned out amazing. It's both nice and frustrating to realize that I've been working harder than I needed to :)
Thanks for the update. I think this is basically what I've been doing for a while now with "The Loaf," since you did mention (as I recall) that a 95/5 ratio of white to rye was your basic white loaf. I just started one right now.
I finally baked a picture perfect delicious loaf with this method. I started baking bread just over a year ago, and my white loaves came out nicely, but I could never get the bread to fully open up. I was blaming my oven, my Dutch oven, my flours and my starter, but it turned out to be the method. I used 20/80 ratio with 30g of starter (it's cold in my kitchen). When I opened the lid after the first 20 minutes, I could not believe my eyes -- the loaf opened up to at least 90 degrees, forming a lovely ear! Thank you so much for sharing this!
Just a quick question about the amount of water listed in the recipe. 74% hydration would mean 370 grams water for 500 grams of flour, but the final formula lists 360 grams. Maybe the 360 grams doesn't include the 10 grams of water in step 1? Looking forward to try this soon!
Hi! I used 11g kosher salt instead of table salt in the 20% whole grain formula.... 12.5 hours in and I suspect it killed my starter or really slowed it down. That or my starter wasn’t quite strong enough (though it did pass the float test after I refreshed it yesterday). Should I extend bulk ferment or start over?
Anne! 11g salt is 11g, no matter what kind of salt it is! So you should be fine there. (Unless I'm reading you wrong. If you used half as much salt as directed somehow, then just add the rest now, it should be fine. As for the dough, maybe it needs more time. If it's cold, it can look like nothing's happening, and then it takes off. Let me know!
I just started following you, as a 8 month pandemic sourdough fanatic. I bake daily and give a good deal of bread away to understand this crazy science. I have ONE huge pressing question for you. I love the qualities of sourdough bread, EXCEPT for the sour. Is this crazy? The best way I have figured out to avoid sour is to avoid the refrigerator retard. This came to me when I started seeing references to the French Respectus Panis method...which uses a small inoculation, with a long ambient rise. Based on this, I started to increase the inoculation, and after my stretch and folds, the bulk proof happened more quickly and I was pleased by a springy, non-sour, open crumbed loaf. I don't understand the appeal of sour per sea.... nor why more is not written about this. My loaves are usually 90% King Arthur Bread Flour, 10% Whole Wheat, 20% active starter, 75-80% hydration, .02 Salt. My very happy starter is being fed 1:5:5 every 12 hours. I would love your thoughts. THANK YOU! Lee Connor. leelee_connor on Instagram
Lee - if you try this loaf (which is definitely related to the 'Respectus Panis' method), you might find it to be very mild. I don't love sour sourdoughs myself (my wife even less so) and this is my go-to approach to baking. I don't think the long fridge rest makes it noticeably sour, and I much prefer the results I get and the convenience it provides. If try to avoid a room temperature final proof whenever possible for those reasons.
Here is a weird question stemming from my poor planning. I have the dough at the point to be bulk fermented for 11-13 hours. It's 2:00pm where I am. Ack. to avoid getting up at 2am, could I put it in the refrigerator now until around 9pm, take it out, and do the bulk ferment overnight.... then shape it in the morning?
sorry I wasn't able to respond in a more timely way! The answer is yes! But chilling the dough down will mean that it will take longer to proof on the other end. Did you try it?
I did! It's proofing now...took it out of the refrigerator at 8pm. It's been 12 hours. I think it will take enough 3-4. hours, but I will be patient. I will circle back.
No, that's the beauty of a low-levain recipe. Doubling it here doesn't affect the dough enough to make a noticeable difference in texture.
Thanks for this! I like it all in one place like this, and I really need to get back to it. My starter is just sitting in the fridge now, poor guy. :)
Thanks for sharing! Curious if you think using KA AP vs bread flour (having different protein content) affects the bread's rise? Or potentially using a bit of both?
Meagan - I think KA AP is strong enough (I've said it before, but it is my go-to "bread" flour), and it's the one I used for the loaves pictured here. Other bread flours differ in protein content, so they'll give slightly different results.
I admire your fold—it rounds the structure up in such a gentle way 😋
Glad you like! I need to do a nicer version of that gif, along with a whole post on folding.
Hi Andrew, thank you for the lovely recipe. I use my countertop oven's Proof setting for bulk fermentation, but it's set, unchangeably, to 80 degrees F. Is that an OK temp, and if so, how much should I shorten the fermentation time?
Steven - I'd either use the 5% amount I list here, or even dial it back a little bit (2.5%?), and stick to the 12h proof time. You might consider starting in the morning, so you can keep an eye on it all day to be sure it doesn't move too fast.
Thanks for the updated recipe for "The Loaf." In Step 7 after forming for the final proof, the recipe directs to "Cover and let sit..." Should the formed dough be covered tightly with plastic wrap? Or loosely with a towel? I use plastic shower caps to tightly cover the bowl during the bulk proof, but am wondering about the final proof stage. Thanks.
Douglas - I'll add more details, but I usually just cover the top my banneton with the same shower cap, but not enclose it entirely, since I think it helps keep moisture from building up between the loaf and the banneton.
Using a plastic shower cap as a “semi-cover” during the final proof makes good sense. During the dry winter, during final proof, I think my loaves have been getting too dry on top. Thanks for the clear reply. Much appreciated!
Hi Andrew, Happy New Year. I used to bake No-Knead bread in my Dutch oven before I purchased a Challenger Pan back in the Spring. I assume that I can bake this in the Challenger Pan and would omit the parchment paper step? (I usually just invert the banneton onto the hot Challenger pan.) I never got around to trying this recipe the first time you published it as I have been using my tried and true KA Extra Tangy Sourdough recipe. But I want to give this one a try as my new standard!
Edith - I bake in a challenger too, but I tend to use parchment, both because I'd rather not invert directly onto the hot pan for fear of burning myself or not having it land exactly where I want it to. But you can skip it if you want!
Thanks for sharing! I've been making more laborious sourdough for months but this was my first try with a no-knead recipe and it turned out amazing. It's both nice and frustrating to realize that I've been working harder than I needed to :)
Thanks for the update. I think this is basically what I've been doing for a while now with "The Loaf," since you did mention (as I recall) that a 95/5 ratio of white to rye was your basic white loaf. I just started one right now.
Would it be okay to use dark rye in the standard/plain loaf, or is that too intense? (If it's not advisable, I'll stick with spelt.)
Either would be nice! But I wouldn't worry about whether it's dark or light rye. I often use whole rye here.
I finally baked a picture perfect delicious loaf with this method. I started baking bread just over a year ago, and my white loaves came out nicely, but I could never get the bread to fully open up. I was blaming my oven, my Dutch oven, my flours and my starter, but it turned out to be the method. I used 20/80 ratio with 30g of starter (it's cold in my kitchen). When I opened the lid after the first 20 minutes, I could not believe my eyes -- the loaf opened up to at least 90 degrees, forming a lovely ear! Thank you so much for sharing this!
So happy to hear that, Anna!
Just a quick question about the amount of water listed in the recipe. 74% hydration would mean 370 grams water for 500 grams of flour, but the final formula lists 360 grams. Maybe the 360 grams doesn't include the 10 grams of water in step 1? Looking forward to try this soon!
that's right, Scott! The overall formula folds the total amount of each ingredient used, start to finish.
Hi! I used 11g kosher salt instead of table salt in the 20% whole grain formula.... 12.5 hours in and I suspect it killed my starter or really slowed it down. That or my starter wasn’t quite strong enough (though it did pass the float test after I refreshed it yesterday). Should I extend bulk ferment or start over?
Anne! 11g salt is 11g, no matter what kind of salt it is! So you should be fine there. (Unless I'm reading you wrong. If you used half as much salt as directed somehow, then just add the rest now, it should be fine. As for the dough, maybe it needs more time. If it's cold, it can look like nothing's happening, and then it takes off. Let me know!
Ok! *something* is happening so I’ll cross my fingers that a warmer location this morning does the trick. 🙏🏻
I get that question a lot, and the answer is usually: have patience! (or find a warmer spot) :)
I just started following you, as a 8 month pandemic sourdough fanatic. I bake daily and give a good deal of bread away to understand this crazy science. I have ONE huge pressing question for you. I love the qualities of sourdough bread, EXCEPT for the sour. Is this crazy? The best way I have figured out to avoid sour is to avoid the refrigerator retard. This came to me when I started seeing references to the French Respectus Panis method...which uses a small inoculation, with a long ambient rise. Based on this, I started to increase the inoculation, and after my stretch and folds, the bulk proof happened more quickly and I was pleased by a springy, non-sour, open crumbed loaf. I don't understand the appeal of sour per sea.... nor why more is not written about this. My loaves are usually 90% King Arthur Bread Flour, 10% Whole Wheat, 20% active starter, 75-80% hydration, .02 Salt. My very happy starter is being fed 1:5:5 every 12 hours. I would love your thoughts. THANK YOU! Lee Connor. leelee_connor on Instagram
Lee - if you try this loaf (which is definitely related to the 'Respectus Panis' method), you might find it to be very mild. I don't love sour sourdoughs myself (my wife even less so) and this is my go-to approach to baking. I don't think the long fridge rest makes it noticeably sour, and I much prefer the results I get and the convenience it provides. If try to avoid a room temperature final proof whenever possible for those reasons.
Here is a weird question stemming from my poor planning. I have the dough at the point to be bulk fermented for 11-13 hours. It's 2:00pm where I am. Ack. to avoid getting up at 2am, could I put it in the refrigerator now until around 9pm, take it out, and do the bulk ferment overnight.... then shape it in the morning?
sorry I wasn't able to respond in a more timely way! The answer is yes! But chilling the dough down will mean that it will take longer to proof on the other end. Did you try it?
I did! It's proofing now...took it out of the refrigerator at 8pm. It's been 12 hours. I think it will take enough 3-4. hours, but I will be patient. I will circle back.
Thanks so much Andrew... I'm on it. Will try it. Could my temperature of dough during bulk be contributing to the sour?
maybe! Let me know what you find with this recipe