Is there a similar post on Levain? In the article “The Loaf” you refer to using cold levain, or leaven. I assume you mean a different ratio than the starter, say 5:5:1 used for leaving bread. I’ve failed now twice on “The Loaf”, and I wonder if I should be using the small amount of leavening straight from the 2:2:1 starter. I’m sure the two fails raised an eyebrow. I’ve had five gorgeous different loaves at the same time thank goodness.
Dorothy - not sure what you mean, exactly, but I use starter/levain (as described above) all the time in that recipe just fine. I'm sending out a new version of that recipe in the next few weeks, and one of the things I emphasize even more in it is that you should use more levain when it's winter cold. I tend to use 10% until ambient temperatures are back above 75 in my kitchen.
Thanks. You have a gift with words. I do not. I’m not sure what’s going wrong. Second try I used 10% even though I use my Brod and Taylor proofer. The kitchen is very cold. I will read through the recipe again before I launch another one. I’d like to master it, as I have mastered the more fussy loaves. I make minimum 5 loaves a week because I share.
The other thing I always emphasize with that recipe is that you should shape it when it is domed, at least doubled, and bubbly within. If you shape it too early, it won't have enough oomph to keep fermenting in the fridge. Be sure you aren't moving it along too early. In the winter, that might take 14 hours or more. Best of luck!
Hi! I tried to find the original Flakes post but it was in version 1.0, so may not be available, and the second post didn't have a comments link, so here I am in a different thread (sorry!). Wondered if there is a way to dry the starter on low-low-low heat to speed things up. It's unlikely that in winter I will be able to store it for 2-3 days to dry at room temp. I finally gave up on all normal attempts with my original starter and just goosed it with a little leftover yeast, and now it's rolling along nicely, would like to send out some "flavoring" starter (doesn't have to be viable) in the mail. Thanks!!!
Susan - if you only want it for flavor, then you can dry it in a low oven. BTW, winter is the best time to dry viable starter, because the air is so dry it goes relatively quickly and there's no risk of mold or bugs.
Hiya! I just scaled up my starter using this recipe (I had a tiny one before) and found that while it was doubled at room temperature, it looks a lot flatter in the fridge. Is this normal?
It's not uncommon for the starter to collapse in the fridge after a few days, but it doesn't always happen. Maybe try moving it to the fridge a little bit sooner next time. It shoudn't really be an issue though!
When you use 2:2:1 flour/water/starter ratio to refresh the starter, is it still a 100% hydration starter? Or does 100% hydration mean it has to be refreshed with 1:1:1 flour/water/starter ratio? Thanks!
Hello. I bought the dried starter. I am on day three of feeding. Today I fed starter twice because it seemed quite vigorous. The short direction did not give ranges on how many days to revive and make the dried starter mature enough to start baking. Can you give guidance? How many days to continue feeding before I can discern it’s ready? Thanks.
Cindy - If it doubles in less than 6 hours at room temperature then you should be good to go. I'd try baking with it, and if all goes according to plan, then you can store it in the fridge as described above.
Andrew, the starter worked. Loaf turned out better than I expected. I would like tips for shaping. You didn’t say much. I’m taking sourdough class in couple weeks. Please talk about final shaping. Thank you.
Hi! I’m on day 5ish of reviving the dry starter every 12 hours or so and just want to make sure I’m on the right track- it has been reliably doubling after each refresh, but has yet to be close to tripling in the 8-hour timespan suggested. My kitchen is a bit cooler (maybe 65?) and I’ve been using water that’s around 80-85 degrees. Should I go longer between feedings to see if it’ll grow more? Just keep at it? Appreciate you!
Nina - Have you observed it at the 8h mark? Are you sure it is not tripling and collapsing before you get back to it? Or is it tripling, but not before 8 hours has passed? I'd keep at it either way. You should see it double in less than 6 hours when it is really getting going. (Mine nearly tripled in 4 hours today, but it is warmer here.) Also: can you find a _slightly_ warmer spot to put it?
Thanks for your prompt response! It doubles and looks pretty active by the 6-hour mark, but definitely slows by the time 8 hours come around. Usually around 12 hours it’s allllmost tripled. I’ll try to find a slightly warmer spot!
You got it! If it is tripling within 12 hours, then it sounds like it is in good shape! See what happens when you set it somewhere close to 75, should speed up significantly.
I think 50/50/25 is still a big batch, but all my loaves are gnome sized 😉 so maybe that's it. I feed 10g starter with 20/20 flour water in the evening before dough day, and the next morning I feed the whole amount with another snack of 20/20. This works timewise perfectly. I do the snack first, place the starter in the proofer, then build my autolyse. The starter usually triples within 90 minutes. I use all but 10g, which will be fed for the next loaf. I don't bake more than one loaf at a time, because then I can have a different bread next time. Besides, playing with dough is kind of like a meditation for me. On days I don't bake, something is missing. 🤷
Sounds like a good system, Sabine! For me I think that there is a minimum I want to have left over at any one moment, just in case something goes wrong, which is closer to 50g or so. I also want to have enough around in case I need a larger amount, which is not uncommon. Otherwise, I'd have to do an intermediate build to scale up.
I have created starters with my seventh grade students three times now and love this method! This year, I had them start with the original tiny recipe of 4 tsp. flour and 2. 5 tsp. water to create their starters from scratch. They are now ready to scale up. The only scale up "recipe" I can find is for the 2.0 starter which uses larger amounts of flour and water. The students also don't have digital scales so I need to provide them with measuring spoon and cup amounts. Any help with the scaling up "recipe"?
Melissa - sorry, I only just saw this comment now. I hope you figured it out by now, but the answer would be to use the same _ratio_, but more. You might want to consult my conversion chart (https://wordloaf.substack.com/p/handy-dandy-conversion-chart-664) or just use the following numbers:
1 cup all-purpose or bread flour = 140g
1 tablespoon (any) flour = ~9g
1 teaspoon (any) flour = ~3g
1g water = 1ml
1 cup water = 240g
1 cup sourdough starter ~= 240g
So for 1 cup of flour, using a 2:2:1 ratio, you'd want to add 2/3 cup water and 1/2 cup starter (those are the closest easy volume measures).
I was taught to refresh sourdough starter using equal proportions of water, flour and starter (i.e. 100 gms. Water, 100 flour, 100 starter). Now I’m confused…
Is there a similar post on Levain? In the article “The Loaf” you refer to using cold levain, or leaven. I assume you mean a different ratio than the starter, say 5:5:1 used for leaving bread. I’ve failed now twice on “The Loaf”, and I wonder if I should be using the small amount of leavening straight from the 2:2:1 starter. I’m sure the two fails raised an eyebrow. I’ve had five gorgeous different loaves at the same time thank goodness.
Dorothy - not sure what you mean, exactly, but I use starter/levain (as described above) all the time in that recipe just fine. I'm sending out a new version of that recipe in the next few weeks, and one of the things I emphasize even more in it is that you should use more levain when it's winter cold. I tend to use 10% until ambient temperatures are back above 75 in my kitchen.
Thanks. You have a gift with words. I do not. I’m not sure what’s going wrong. Second try I used 10% even though I use my Brod and Taylor proofer. The kitchen is very cold. I will read through the recipe again before I launch another one. I’d like to master it, as I have mastered the more fussy loaves. I make minimum 5 loaves a week because I share.
Thanks for all the great content.
The other thing I always emphasize with that recipe is that you should shape it when it is domed, at least doubled, and bubbly within. If you shape it too early, it won't have enough oomph to keep fermenting in the fridge. Be sure you aren't moving it along too early. In the winter, that might take 14 hours or more. Best of luck!
Hi! I tried to find the original Flakes post but it was in version 1.0, so may not be available, and the second post didn't have a comments link, so here I am in a different thread (sorry!). Wondered if there is a way to dry the starter on low-low-low heat to speed things up. It's unlikely that in winter I will be able to store it for 2-3 days to dry at room temp. I finally gave up on all normal attempts with my original starter and just goosed it with a little leftover yeast, and now it's rolling along nicely, would like to send out some "flavoring" starter (doesn't have to be viable) in the mail. Thanks!!!
Susan - if you only want it for flavor, then you can dry it in a low oven. BTW, winter is the best time to dry viable starter, because the air is so dry it goes relatively quickly and there's no risk of mold or bugs.
Hiya! I just scaled up my starter using this recipe (I had a tiny one before) and found that while it was doubled at room temperature, it looks a lot flatter in the fridge. Is this normal?
It's not uncommon for the starter to collapse in the fridge after a few days, but it doesn't always happen. Maybe try moving it to the fridge a little bit sooner next time. It shoudn't really be an issue though!
When you use 2:2:1 flour/water/starter ratio to refresh the starter, is it still a 100% hydration starter? Or does 100% hydration mean it has to be refreshed with 1:1:1 flour/water/starter ratio? Thanks!
Hydration ONLY refers to the ratio of flour to water, so 1:1 and 2:2 are the same!
Hello. I bought the dried starter. I am on day three of feeding. Today I fed starter twice because it seemed quite vigorous. The short direction did not give ranges on how many days to revive and make the dried starter mature enough to start baking. Can you give guidance? How many days to continue feeding before I can discern it’s ready? Thanks.
Cindy - If it doubles in less than 6 hours at room temperature then you should be good to go. I'd try baking with it, and if all goes according to plan, then you can store it in the fridge as described above.
Andrew, the starter worked. Loaf turned out better than I expected. I would like tips for shaping. You didn’t say much. I’m taking sourdough class in couple weeks. Please talk about final shaping. Thank you.
Hi! I’m on day 5ish of reviving the dry starter every 12 hours or so and just want to make sure I’m on the right track- it has been reliably doubling after each refresh, but has yet to be close to tripling in the 8-hour timespan suggested. My kitchen is a bit cooler (maybe 65?) and I’ve been using water that’s around 80-85 degrees. Should I go longer between feedings to see if it’ll grow more? Just keep at it? Appreciate you!
Nina - Have you observed it at the 8h mark? Are you sure it is not tripling and collapsing before you get back to it? Or is it tripling, but not before 8 hours has passed? I'd keep at it either way. You should see it double in less than 6 hours when it is really getting going. (Mine nearly tripled in 4 hours today, but it is warmer here.) Also: can you find a _slightly_ warmer spot to put it?
Thanks for your prompt response! It doubles and looks pretty active by the 6-hour mark, but definitely slows by the time 8 hours come around. Usually around 12 hours it’s allllmost tripled. I’ll try to find a slightly warmer spot!
You got it! If it is tripling within 12 hours, then it sounds like it is in good shape! See what happens when you set it somewhere close to 75, should speed up significantly.
I think 50/50/25 is still a big batch, but all my loaves are gnome sized 😉 so maybe that's it. I feed 10g starter with 20/20 flour water in the evening before dough day, and the next morning I feed the whole amount with another snack of 20/20. This works timewise perfectly. I do the snack first, place the starter in the proofer, then build my autolyse. The starter usually triples within 90 minutes. I use all but 10g, which will be fed for the next loaf. I don't bake more than one loaf at a time, because then I can have a different bread next time. Besides, playing with dough is kind of like a meditation for me. On days I don't bake, something is missing. 🤷
Sounds like a good system, Sabine! For me I think that there is a minimum I want to have left over at any one moment, just in case something goes wrong, which is closer to 50g or so. I also want to have enough around in case I need a larger amount, which is not uncommon. Otherwise, I'd have to do an intermediate build to scale up.
I have created starters with my seventh grade students three times now and love this method! This year, I had them start with the original tiny recipe of 4 tsp. flour and 2. 5 tsp. water to create their starters from scratch. They are now ready to scale up. The only scale up "recipe" I can find is for the 2.0 starter which uses larger amounts of flour and water. The students also don't have digital scales so I need to provide them with measuring spoon and cup amounts. Any help with the scaling up "recipe"?
Melissa - sorry, I only just saw this comment now. I hope you figured it out by now, but the answer would be to use the same _ratio_, but more. You might want to consult my conversion chart (https://wordloaf.substack.com/p/handy-dandy-conversion-chart-664) or just use the following numbers:
1 cup all-purpose or bread flour = 140g
1 tablespoon (any) flour = ~9g
1 teaspoon (any) flour = ~3g
1g water = 1ml
1 cup water = 240g
1 cup sourdough starter ~= 240g
So for 1 cup of flour, using a 2:2:1 ratio, you'd want to add 2/3 cup water and 1/2 cup starter (those are the closest easy volume measures).
I was taught to refresh sourdough starter using equal proportions of water, flour and starter (i.e. 100 gms. Water, 100 flour, 100 starter). Now I’m confused…
Elizabeth - there are loads of ways to maintain a sourdough starter. If that ratio works for you, stick with it!