Central Milling sells Whole Dark Rye Flour, Medium White Rye Flour, and Pumpernickel Rye Flour, as well as whole rye berries. I have experience with the dark eye flour, though I usually use it to feed my starter and sometimes in bread or bagels, but I’ve not often made what I would consider a true rye bread with it. It would be super fun to have a sourdough pumpernickel recipe, I think! But I agree, sometimes it is hard to know what to flour and what recipe to use to get the style of rye bread that can typically be found in a classic Jewish deli, on say, a pastrami sandwich.
to bake jewish deli rye bread, i use the recipe from Zingerman's Bakehouse cookbook, which uses a "rye sour" starter to create that unique flavor. that starter has the only rye flour in the recipe. the rest of it is all purpose flour.
I searched high and low for rye chops for Sarah Owens' Drunken Fig bread, and came up empty-handed. It somehow never occurred to me that I could make my own with my Mockmill. How'd you do it?
Eric - it's easy: open the mill to the max coarseness (20 on mine) and run it through. Then sift out the fines through a coarse sieve. (You can re-mill the fines and use it as flour.)
Also, back in the early days of homebrewing there weren't any small grain mills available dedicated to cracking malt. All-grain brewers turned to the Corona Mill which could be purchased in Latino markets, was cheap, and did an OK job of it although the range of particle sizes produced was really much larger than desired. These are still available and can be motorized by attaching a drill to the crankshaft. I think it would do the job for rye and wheat berries. As you said, the fines can be removed by sieving.
Oh, and the nearest Whole Foods market to me sells Arrowhead Mills organic rye flour. And a neighborhood supermarket (Pemberton's) sells Bob's Red Mill Stone Ground Dark Rye flour
How exciting that your delving into 100% rye breads. It's entirely different from wheat baking, and the outcomes are wonderful. I use rye in my starter--I find it easier to work with than wheat. And maybe 5% of my loaves are rye of the Danish sort--dense and full of seeds. It's difficult to find rye on regular supermarket shelves, and the distinctions between the types are maddening. I used to be able to reliably source Hodgkins Mills rye flour in several places, but it disappeared a few years ago. The little bags of Bob's Red Mill in the stores aren't really large enough for serious loaves. So, I now buy rye berries in bulk through Amazon and mill my own flour. And I recently discovered that buying rye seed from the agricultural supplies store sold for planting rye cover crop is the same stuff, and at a much lower cost. Unfortunately, my Nutrimill doesn't distinguish much between fine and coarse flours, and cracked berries are out of the question. I've managed to crack them in my food processor for the loaf I've been making most recently, inspired by this from Food Geek https://foodgeek.dk/en/danish-rye-bread-recipe/. Prior inspirations came from Stanley Ginsburg's The Rye Baker. Looking forward to your experiments.
We can get Bob's Red Mill Dark Rye flour here. I used Bob's Red Mill Rye in Andrew's Hearth Bread recipe. I sometimes buy medium rye flour through King Arthur flour.
The ryes from Carolina Ground are labeled light, medium, and I assume whole though the last one is not labeled that way. Wren’s Abruzzi Rye is how it’s labeled. Been working through a couple books on my way to Rye including Flour Power and Southern Ground. Looking forward to yours (and just got the whey together for your Yogurt whey méteil which should be fun).
Oh for the days, not all that long ago, when Pillsbury sold 5-lb bags of medium rye in grocery stores. And oh for the days of the wonderful Hodgkins Mill rye. The company that took over Hodgkins Mill sells a rye flour, but it is entirely different from the old version. I get organic medium rye from King Arthur Flour, but heavily resent having to pay the organic premium on it when I don't care about that (bad me). I can get Bob's Red Mill and Arrowhead dark rye flours locally.
I mostly get Marriage's dark rye flour (which equates to wholemeal rye, I think). I don't think I've seen other kinds of rye flour in the supermarkets I frequent (and I am a bit too cheap to pay for speciality flour lol)
Recipes wise, I haven't attempted an almost 100% rye, it's been mostly up to ~30% or so only, so would definitely be interested if you post some recipes and show how to make it taste nice Andrew :D
Farmer Ground produces a stone ground whole rye flour, I'd call it "medium" dark. I use it daily for my starter. Farmer Ground is available at most Whole Foods in NYC (and probably other East Coast cities), and I order it delivered through https://farmtopeople.com/. It's terrific. One of the tastiest breads in my repertoire is the Spiced Scalded Rye formula from Tartine 3 - scalding the rye is huge!
I've tried rye several times but am frustrated in getting flour - locally (Charlotte) with no rye tradition it's either exotically expensive or 5# for 'medium rye' at the grocery store - and I don't need 5# all at once.
I really enjoy rye bread baking (I mostly use a medium rye starter), but unfortunately it is difficult to reliably find anything other than dark rye at places I typically shop (incl. stuff from local mills). I wish it were more popular - hopefully a revival is brewing!
So I mail order - I like Bay State for medium and white rye flours - but it can be a challenge to find non-bulk bags (especially of the latter). They seem to keep fine long-term vac-sealed in the freezer though.
I like the whole rye flour from Janie's Mill. I combine it with locally grown rye I mill on my own. Been baking rye for a long time but found Stanley Ginsburg's The Rye Baker probably the best resource out there for tips (esp on use of various malts) and formulas.
I buy Ardent Mills Medium Rye as my basic rye from Baker's Authority in Queens NY, and I pick it up at their warehouse. They also have White Rye, Dark Rye, Pumpernickel (which I think is a whole grain fine meal) and then also Rye chops. Here's a link: https://www.bakersauthority.com/collections/rye-flours-bulk
I also found a local supplier here in New Jersey who sells locally grown Rye and I bought a 40lb bag of grain from him and use my MockMill to grind whole grain flours.
The interesting part about this recipe is that it is 100% rye, and uses a one-stage ferment/proof with a small amount of sourdough starter to rise overnight in a bread pan and bake the next day. Truly simple and it makes a delicious 100% Rye bread. While the recipe calls for 50% medium and 50% whole grain rye flours, I've made it with a variety of rye flours, including 100% whole grain. If you don't like sunflower seeds, try pumpkin seeds, which also work great.
You'll have to translate the web page, but it is worth the effort!
It is a Lithuanian black rye bread with a wonderful sweet-fragrant flavor from the red fermented rye malt (Russian "solod") that it uses. I buy my solod on EBay, as I haven't found a local source. It's really nice in eastern european and Russian rye recipes. This recipe makes an oval smooth shiny loaf that is so dark that it is almost black. It's a typical complicated baltic/russian recipe, with three pre-ferment stages, but it's not hard to do if you stay organized.
I have some eBay solod too, will check it out. Some books suggests toasting rye malt until it is dark, but others suggest that it isn't a good sub. Will be trying both.
I bought some crystal red rye malt and chocolate rye malt from midwestsupplies.com, a brewing supply place, so the malt has already been toasted. The solod is much more flavorful, I think because of the fermentation. I use the solod for baltic and Russian breads, and the other malts for German and Austrian breads that call for malt.
Another use for solod that I found was on Natashasbaking.com, where she makes a malted sourdough whole wheat cranberry bread. She uses a high-temperature scald with solod and flour plus a sourdough starter. The flavors worked very well together in a unique way. Give it a try! https://natashasbaking.com/malted-sourdough-with-dried-cranberries/
Another, different rye recipe is this "Krintstuut", a recipe from the area of Frisia. It is a 50% Rye done with a lot of raisins and currants in it, and enriched with milk and butter. It uses a two-stage sourdough and a raisin soaker, and also a small amount of yeast in the final dough.
It's a really nice breakfast bread and a great example of a sweet bread using a large amount of rye.
Central Milling sells Whole Dark Rye Flour, Medium White Rye Flour, and Pumpernickel Rye Flour, as well as whole rye berries. I have experience with the dark eye flour, though I usually use it to feed my starter and sometimes in bread or bagels, but I’ve not often made what I would consider a true rye bread with it. It would be super fun to have a sourdough pumpernickel recipe, I think! But I agree, sometimes it is hard to know what to flour and what recipe to use to get the style of rye bread that can typically be found in a classic Jewish deli, on say, a pastrami sandwich.
I have experience with the dark rye* flour... oops! Haha.
to bake jewish deli rye bread, i use the recipe from Zingerman's Bakehouse cookbook, which uses a "rye sour" starter to create that unique flavor. that starter has the only rye flour in the recipe. the rest of it is all purpose flour.
I searched high and low for rye chops for Sarah Owens' Drunken Fig bread, and came up empty-handed. It somehow never occurred to me that I could make my own with my Mockmill. How'd you do it?
Eric - it's easy: open the mill to the max coarseness (20 on mine) and run it through. Then sift out the fines through a coarse sieve. (You can re-mill the fines and use it as flour.)
Thank you!
What is the grind like if one takes a burr coffee grinder and sets it as coarse as possible? Would rye berries be cracked or turned into coarse flour?
it might work, I've heard burr flour mills are better for cracking grains than stone mills. Give it a try and let us know! I don't have one myself
Also, back in the early days of homebrewing there weren't any small grain mills available dedicated to cracking malt. All-grain brewers turned to the Corona Mill which could be purchased in Latino markets, was cheap, and did an OK job of it although the range of particle sizes produced was really much larger than desired. These are still available and can be motorized by attaching a drill to the crankshaft. I think it would do the job for rye and wheat berries. As you said, the fines can be removed by sieving.
https://www.amazon.com/Cranking-Operation-Grinder-Grinding-Commercial/dp/B08MDYLM88/ref=asc_df_B08MDYLM88/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=632065800132&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11144654544057436569&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002012&hvtargid=pla-1886912518276&psc=1
I just bought a 1-lb bag of Pereg brand "Whole Grain Rye Multi-purpose flour" at my local Wegman's . Ingredient list says: Dark Rye Flour
Oh, and the nearest Whole Foods market to me sells Arrowhead Mills organic rye flour. And a neighborhood supermarket (Pemberton's) sells Bob's Red Mill Stone Ground Dark Rye flour
I came here to say exactly this (except different neighborhood supermarket).
How exciting that your delving into 100% rye breads. It's entirely different from wheat baking, and the outcomes are wonderful. I use rye in my starter--I find it easier to work with than wheat. And maybe 5% of my loaves are rye of the Danish sort--dense and full of seeds. It's difficult to find rye on regular supermarket shelves, and the distinctions between the types are maddening. I used to be able to reliably source Hodgkins Mills rye flour in several places, but it disappeared a few years ago. The little bags of Bob's Red Mill in the stores aren't really large enough for serious loaves. So, I now buy rye berries in bulk through Amazon and mill my own flour. And I recently discovered that buying rye seed from the agricultural supplies store sold for planting rye cover crop is the same stuff, and at a much lower cost. Unfortunately, my Nutrimill doesn't distinguish much between fine and coarse flours, and cracked berries are out of the question. I've managed to crack them in my food processor for the loaf I've been making most recently, inspired by this from Food Geek https://foodgeek.dk/en/danish-rye-bread-recipe/. Prior inspirations came from Stanley Ginsburg's The Rye Baker. Looking forward to your experiments.
We can get Bob's Red Mill Dark Rye flour here. I used Bob's Red Mill Rye in Andrew's Hearth Bread recipe. I sometimes buy medium rye flour through King Arthur flour.
The ryes from Carolina Ground are labeled light, medium, and I assume whole though the last one is not labeled that way. Wren’s Abruzzi Rye is how it’s labeled. Been working through a couple books on my way to Rye including Flour Power and Southern Ground. Looking forward to yours (and just got the whey together for your Yogurt whey méteil which should be fun).
The one I currently have from Carolina Ground is labeled whole Wren’s Abruzzi. Excited to try it out!
Oh for the days, not all that long ago, when Pillsbury sold 5-lb bags of medium rye in grocery stores. And oh for the days of the wonderful Hodgkins Mill rye. The company that took over Hodgkins Mill sells a rye flour, but it is entirely different from the old version. I get organic medium rye from King Arthur Flour, but heavily resent having to pay the organic premium on it when I don't care about that (bad me). I can get Bob's Red Mill and Arrowhead dark rye flours locally.
I mostly get Marriage's dark rye flour (which equates to wholemeal rye, I think). I don't think I've seen other kinds of rye flour in the supermarkets I frequent (and I am a bit too cheap to pay for speciality flour lol)
Recipes wise, I haven't attempted an almost 100% rye, it's been mostly up to ~30% or so only, so would definitely be interested if you post some recipes and show how to make it taste nice Andrew :D
Farmer Ground produces a stone ground whole rye flour, I'd call it "medium" dark. I use it daily for my starter. Farmer Ground is available at most Whole Foods in NYC (and probably other East Coast cities), and I order it delivered through https://farmtopeople.com/. It's terrific. One of the tastiest breads in my repertoire is the Spiced Scalded Rye formula from Tartine 3 - scalding the rye is huge!
Bob's Red Mill, in the small bag. There are enormous bags of product at a local restaurant supply/grocery store, but it is too much to store.
I've tried rye several times but am frustrated in getting flour - locally (Charlotte) with no rye tradition it's either exotically expensive or 5# for 'medium rye' at the grocery store - and I don't need 5# all at once.
I really enjoy rye bread baking (I mostly use a medium rye starter), but unfortunately it is difficult to reliably find anything other than dark rye at places I typically shop (incl. stuff from local mills). I wish it were more popular - hopefully a revival is brewing!
So I mail order - I like Bay State for medium and white rye flours - but it can be a challenge to find non-bulk bags (especially of the latter). They seem to keep fine long-term vac-sealed in the freezer though.
I like the whole rye flour from Janie's Mill. I combine it with locally grown rye I mill on my own. Been baking rye for a long time but found Stanley Ginsburg's The Rye Baker probably the best resource out there for tips (esp on use of various malts) and formulas.
I buy Ardent Mills Medium Rye as my basic rye from Baker's Authority in Queens NY, and I pick it up at their warehouse. They also have White Rye, Dark Rye, Pumpernickel (which I think is a whole grain fine meal) and then also Rye chops. Here's a link: https://www.bakersauthority.com/collections/rye-flours-bulk
I also found a local supplier here in New Jersey who sells locally grown Rye and I bought a 40lb bag of grain from him and use my MockMill to grind whole grain flours.
The simplest mostly rye recipe that I make is a Sourdough Rye with Sunflower Seeds that I found on a german bread blog: https://backen-mit-spass.de/rezepte/brot-broetchen/brot/1177-roggen-sauerteigbrot-sonnenblumenkerne
The interesting part about this recipe is that it is 100% rye, and uses a one-stage ferment/proof with a small amount of sourdough starter to rise overnight in a bread pan and bake the next day. Truly simple and it makes a delicious 100% Rye bread. While the recipe calls for 50% medium and 50% whole grain rye flours, I've made it with a variety of rye flours, including 100% whole grain. If you don't like sunflower seeds, try pumpkin seeds, which also work great.
You'll have to translate the web page, but it is worth the effort!
Speaking of rye recipes, another favorite of mine is this a very dark Eastern European bread that I make from this recipe: http://theryebaker.com/black-rye-breadjuoda-rugine-duona-lithuania/#more-275.
It is a Lithuanian black rye bread with a wonderful sweet-fragrant flavor from the red fermented rye malt (Russian "solod") that it uses. I buy my solod on EBay, as I haven't found a local source. It's really nice in eastern european and Russian rye recipes. This recipe makes an oval smooth shiny loaf that is so dark that it is almost black. It's a typical complicated baltic/russian recipe, with three pre-ferment stages, but it's not hard to do if you stay organized.
I have some eBay solod too, will check it out. Some books suggests toasting rye malt until it is dark, but others suggest that it isn't a good sub. Will be trying both.
I bought some crystal red rye malt and chocolate rye malt from midwestsupplies.com, a brewing supply place, so the malt has already been toasted. The solod is much more flavorful, I think because of the fermentation. I use the solod for baltic and Russian breads, and the other malts for German and Austrian breads that call for malt.
Another use for solod that I found was on Natashasbaking.com, where she makes a malted sourdough whole wheat cranberry bread. She uses a high-temperature scald with solod and flour plus a sourdough starter. The flavors worked very well together in a unique way. Give it a try! https://natashasbaking.com/malted-sourdough-with-dried-cranberries/
Another, different rye recipe is this "Krintstuut", a recipe from the area of Frisia. It is a 50% Rye done with a lot of raisins and currants in it, and enriched with milk and butter. It uses a two-stage sourdough and a raisin soaker, and also a small amount of yeast in the final dough.
It's a really nice breakfast bread and a great example of a sweet bread using a large amount of rye.
Once again, I found it on a german bread blog site: https://www.hefe-und-mehr.de/en/2019/05/krintstuut/
that's all for now, maybe more later!